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Conflict in the Middle East
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105
MissyB1 · 17/04/2025 13:32

Mumoftwo52 · 17/04/2025 12:08

So I’m guessing you feel as strongly about the genocide in Sudan right now? I’m sure you’re talking about it all the time. Right?

My initial post was about not trusting X as a source, and you’re suggesting that’s ok because it’s better than the Daily Mail??

What makes you think people can't care about more than one terrible situation? I'm quite capable of it, are you?

Martymcfly24 · 17/04/2025 13:42

Bbq1 · 17/04/2025 13:31

I don't agree with the paying back wording but with the comment that Israel retaliated in response to Hamas taking hostages who they then murdered, raped or starved. Is that right? I am for all people, the innocent suffering on both sides whether or not they are Palestinian or Israeli. They are all the innocent people suffering. I agreed with the post saying that Hamas are the evil "arny" who reignited the decades long dispute on October 7th. I know it's fashionable to only care about Palestine but I care for all civilians on all sides regardless of their race, creed or religion who are caught up in the horror of wars. I don't pick and choose which side to support.

You use the word agreed and quoted a post that said "Israel are just paying them back" in the context of previous posts speaking about an attack which killed 25.

That is why I posted . If you wish to change your argument fine but I took your post at face value.

And it's not "fashionable" to care about Palestinians it's humanity.

Bbq1 · 17/04/2025 13:57

@Martymcfly24
Are you missing the point that it's humanity to care about the innocent on BOTH sides of the conflict? Can you not understand that it is possible to care about Israelis snd Palestinians simultaneously? That is true humanity, not cherry picking who you think is more deserving of your concern.

Martymcfly24 · 17/04/2025 14:02

With all due respect @Bbq1 I don't feel it's me missing the point....

Mumoftwo52 · 17/04/2025 14:41

MissyB1 · 17/04/2025 13:32

What makes you think people can't care about more than one terrible situation? I'm quite capable of it, are you?

Of course - but I’ve not seen social media posts calling out the atrocities in Sudan, and there are no protests on the streets of London about it. Why do you think that is?

Martymcfly24 · 17/04/2025 14:43

@Mumoftwo52

This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 6)
This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 6)
This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 6)
This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 6)
MissyB1 · 17/04/2025 14:53

Mumoftwo52 · 17/04/2025 14:41

Of course - but I’ve not seen social media posts calling out the atrocities in Sudan, and there are no protests on the streets of London about it. Why do you think that is?

So have you written those social media posts yourself? Have you started threads on here about Sudan? If so feel free to link, I will definitely be interested to read them. And you could organise a protest, but as far as I'm aware our Government are not supporting any war in Sudan - unlike their vocal support for Israel and the arms they sell to Israel. So I'm not sure what your protest would be about 🤔

Bbq1 · 17/04/2025 15:38

Martymcfly24 · 17/04/2025 14:02

With all due respect @Bbq1 I don't feel it's me missing the point....

Clearly you are..

Bbq1 · 17/04/2025 15:41

@MissyB1
People on this thread can't grasp the concept of caring for more than one set of people, they can't understand how others might actually care about Israeli AND Palestinian children being murdered.

Martymcfly24 · 17/04/2025 16:59

Bbq1 · 17/04/2025 15:41

@MissyB1
People on this thread can't grasp the concept of caring for more than one set of people, they can't understand how others might actually care about Israeli AND Palestinian children being murdered.

I think taking the moral high ground when you agree and quote a post about "paying them back" is disingenuous to say the least.

"People " do care, you have unilaterally decided they don't with no evidence.

Bbq1 · 17/04/2025 18:42

Martymcfly24 · 17/04/2025 16:59

I think taking the moral high ground when you agree and quote a post about "paying them back" is disingenuous to say the least.

"People " do care, you have unilaterally decided they don't with no evidence.

I already explained that, check back if you need reminding. Take it up with the original poster.

The "evidence" is all the threads on here where "people" are expressing sorrow for those suffering in Palestine but there's no concern for similar suffering in Israel.

Martymcfly24 · 17/04/2025 20:31

I saw @Scirocco about one man and his pregnant wife that were killed but the 2 year old survived. Another orphan living in a desperate situation.

Mumoftwo52 · 17/04/2025 20:59

Thanks. It’s incredibly sad that innocent women and children are being caught up in this war. My heart breaks for them.

Did you skip the sentence which says:

“Israel has reportedly put forward a proposal for a renewed ceasefire under which dozens of Israeli hostages would be released and Hamas would disarm.
Hamas has rejected disarming.”

or did you just choose not to see it?

these children would not be dead if Hamas returned Israeli hostages. Can you understand that?

Martymcfly24 · 17/04/2025 21:54

Mumoftwo52 · 17/04/2025 20:59

Thanks. It’s incredibly sad that innocent women and children are being caught up in this war. My heart breaks for them.

Did you skip the sentence which says:

“Israel has reportedly put forward a proposal for a renewed ceasefire under which dozens of Israeli hostages would be released and Hamas would disarm.
Hamas has rejected disarming.”

or did you just choose not to see it?

these children would not be dead if Hamas returned Israeli hostages. Can you understand that?

Netanyahu has stated that returning the hostages will not end the war.

The renewed ceasefire deal gives no commitment to end the war or for an Israeli troop pull out of Gaza (the ones killing the women and children).

So chances are they would still be dead along with the 1600 people the IDF have slaughtered since they broke the last ceasefire.

Mumoftwo52 · 17/04/2025 22:19

Martymcfly24 · 17/04/2025 21:54

Netanyahu has stated that returning the hostages will not end the war.

The renewed ceasefire deal gives no commitment to end the war or for an Israeli troop pull out of Gaza (the ones killing the women and children).

So chances are they would still be dead along with the 1600 people the IDF have slaughtered since they broke the last ceasefire.

Hamas has rejected so many ceasfire deals it’s hard to keep up. They refuse to give back the hostages. They know exactly what they are doing by rejecting these deals but don’t care because they are not thinking of the best interests of Palestinians.

Hamas officials have reiterated time and time again that they will continue to attack Israel because it simply does not want it / a Jewish state to exist.

Israel has a right to defend itself. Unfortunately innocent people - which Hamas could not care less about - are the ones that suffer. It’s truly devastating how many children have died. Again, Hamas don’t give a flying duck.

Why don’t you redirect your anger towards them - a terrorist organisation that has committed some truly heinous atrocities - rather than Israel?

I implore you to see beyond the Israel is evil narrative + think about why you hold so much contempt for a country I can almost guarantee you have never visited.

Martymcfly24 · 17/04/2025 22:49

@Mumoftwo52

Hamas is a terrorist organization I hold nothing but contempt for.

I urge you to listen to the many interviews from Dr Morgan McGonagle, unfortunately he is Irish so you may not believe him either, about his experience working as a medic in Gaza. It is beyond heartbreaking.

This is why I also hold Israel in contempt, like I would any country that snipers children in the head and bombs displaced people sheltering in tents.

I urge you to think why you find this behavior from a democratic government and military is acceptable.

Mumoftwo52 · 17/04/2025 23:01

Martymcfly24 · 17/04/2025 22:49

@Mumoftwo52

Hamas is a terrorist organization I hold nothing but contempt for.

I urge you to listen to the many interviews from Dr Morgan McGonagle, unfortunately he is Irish so you may not believe him either, about his experience working as a medic in Gaza. It is beyond heartbreaking.

This is why I also hold Israel in contempt, like I would any country that snipers children in the head and bombs displaced people sheltering in tents.

I urge you to think why you find this behavior from a democratic government and military is acceptable.

I’m sure his account is heartbreaking. Working in a war zone must be extremely hard. I don’t need to listen to him to know that.

You may say you have contempt for Hamas but your attacks are directed at Israel.

I acknowledge that Israel sometimes gets it wrong - very wrong - but they are at war and are fighting for survival. Let’s be real - the entire Middle East wants to wipe Israel from the map.

War is war and it’s fudging shit for everyone involved.

And as much as I like arguing with strangers on the internet, we will have to agree to disagree and leave it there.

Martymcfly24 · 17/04/2025 23:40

We'll agree to disagree, fair enough.

Disappointing though, when you asked why my anger was directed at Israel and when I gave an answer and a reason/source for why "you don't need to listen" to it.

Good night so.

Scirocco · 18/04/2025 05:28

Mumoftwo52 · 17/04/2025 23:01

I’m sure his account is heartbreaking. Working in a war zone must be extremely hard. I don’t need to listen to him to know that.

You may say you have contempt for Hamas but your attacks are directed at Israel.

I acknowledge that Israel sometimes gets it wrong - very wrong - but they are at war and are fighting for survival. Let’s be real - the entire Middle East wants to wipe Israel from the map.

War is war and it’s fudging shit for everyone involved.

And as much as I like arguing with strangers on the internet, we will have to agree to disagree and leave it there.

I would suggest listening to, watching and reading the accounts of the healthcare professionals who have seen first-hand what is happening. It's not about having a general idea of the concept that working in a war zone is hard; it's about the specific acts which go beyond the limits in international humanitarian law. Everyone working in such fields expects to see death and suffering. What is being reported is beyond what many very experienced people have seen before (in other wars and disasters).

Even when a country is at war, there are meant to be limits on what that means the country/ its government/ its military can do. That includes ensuring actions are proportional and necessary with the minimum amount of civilian casualties and damage to meet a necessary objective, fulfilling obligations as an occupying power including facilitating the provision of aid, adhering to rules about when people are and aren't viewed as combatants, treating people humanely when they are detained, etc. Many people are concerned about the multiple reports, including statements from the Israeli leadership, eyewitness accounts, satellite images, etc., which indicate that the current actions of Israel aren't within those limits. Many people are concerned about what it means on a wider level, too, that these limits no longer seem to have to be respected. The limits existed to protect everyone, and the world as a whole is less safe without them.

Twiglets1 · 18/04/2025 05:55

I just don’t understand why the people giving good intelligent reasons for their dislike of the Israel government & IDF ( as opposed to those just spamming stuff from X) don’t also criticise Hamas in their posts?

Israel has offered another ceasefire for 45 days in exchange for 10 prisoners. That would be time to get humanitarian aid into Gaza to provide the help so badly needed by the citizens. Rather inevitably, Hamas has rejected the offer.

Should you not be criticising Hamas for the humanitarian crisis in Gaza alongside your criticisms of the Israel government & IDF?

Twiglets1 · 18/04/2025 06:09

Don’t you think Hamas should have accepted the 45 day truce @Scirocco ?

Scirocco · 18/04/2025 06:24

Twiglets1 · 18/04/2025 06:09

Don’t you think Hamas should have accepted the 45 day truce @Scirocco ?

There was never any realistic prospect of them doing so. Assuming your post above is aimed at me, there are many threads about how people despise Hamas. This thread is about the actions of the Israeli government and military. I'd actually been in the process of writing a new thread about the rejection of the ceasefire proposal as there didn't seem to be a specific space for discussion of the recent developments or lack thereof, when the article about Easter popped up in my newsfeed, so I came back to post that and of course have managed to lose what I was writing about the ceasefire proposal and rejection. As I'm now making breakfast and preparing to take DC out, my second attempt (unless someone else has started one) probably won't be much more than a link now. There has been plenty of condemnation of Hamas and other groups by people here.

Rocknrollstar · 18/04/2025 06:35

Hamas have turned down the latest offer of a ceasefire - 48 days in t return for 10 hostages.

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