Hamas and Gazans revolting

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g71lk09npo

I think it's a real positive that brave Gazans are now protesting against Hamas openly demonstrating at least some of the population can see it is Hamas that has brought death and destruction to the enclave.

The irony is that war trodden Gazans are protesting in harsh conditions possibly risking death against Hamas while in your average 'Pro Palestine' March in London there are very limited signs with Hamas out. Should we start anti Hamas protests in the UK in solidarity with Gaza?

@sualipa

"The Nazi regime was uniquely and horrifically evil with its crimes stand without equal before or since."

Hamas are uniquely and horrifically evil with crimes such as murdering elderly and children, holding babies hostage and killing them rape etc.

"While Hamas is indisputably a terrorist organization, both morally and legally, its origins are rooted in historical injustices and the grievances of a displaced people. The Palestinian experience includes being driven from their land by Zionist militia some of which employed terrorist methods in the effort to establish and sustain a Jewish state."

The Nazi regime was indisputably brutal and horrific both morally and legally. You could easily argue that its origins are rooted within n the historical injustices of the Versailles Peace deal and the grievances of its people. Immediately after the Versailles peace deal Germany was occupied by the French and British military. The French were involved in rape, murder and state organised theft of private property, industrial production and machinery.

@SalmonDreams

"but if we havr to then i think a more apt analogy would be india and Pakistan who fight about territory along religious lines. Please note that inspite of repeated terrorist attacks on Indian soil india has never tried to annihilate the population of Pakistan and targets precision terrorist cells or military sites (and I did think that their response to the latest terrorist attacks wasn't wise)."

The reason India or Pakistan have never tried to escalate or invade each other's territory on a large scale is for no other reason than both countries having nuclear weapons, and that they wish to avoid complete mutual destruction.

Perhaps read the Hamas Charter which its current leader recently affirmed as its mission. Particularly Articles 11,13, 15 and 31. Can anyone argue that this is not about the perceived sovereignty of Islam in the region even when it’s right in front of their face?

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas

https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/509297/Hamas-leader-Palestinians-humiliated-occupiers

@sualipa

"And re: WWII, I get the comparison but it's not really the same. Lots of people now think things like the bombing of Dresden were morally wrong. Just becasue something happened in history doesn’t make it right now. "

So if lots of people now believe that the bombing of Dresden and other German cities killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians was morally wrong and "not right now", would you support the prosecution of the few remaining WW2 bomber crews that are alive for war crimes. And that VE Day should have been a day of regret and contrition for all the innocent German civilians killed rather than a celebration of the end of the war?

Bomber Harris was never ennobled like many other commanders of World War II, and Churchill himself later expressed deep reservations about the horrors inflicted on German civilians through firebombing and carpet bombing. This was a new kind of war, fought with increasingly destructive and indiscriminate weapons. There is little evidence that these raids broke the resolve of the German people; if anything, they often caused civilians to rally more tightly around their leaders. These were acts of terror bombing intended to crush the enemy's will but they frequently achieved the opposite.

And no, of course most bomber crews did not fully grasp this. Most were told they were attacking military or industrial targets. Official mission briefings often described the objectives as factories, rail yards, or other "military infrastructure," even when those were located in densely populated urban areas. Deception or euphemism was sometimes used to shield crews from the harsh reality that civilians would inevitably suffer or were being deliberately targeted.

So brave of these starving suffering people .... they know they re expendable to Hamas and collateral damage for IDF ...
Hamas are vile... their triumphant display of the Bibas baby coffins will never be forgotten

Honestly, if that’s the case, it’s hard to understand why Qatar still gets full diplomatic support from leaders like Trump and others, especially given their long-standing ties to parts of the Hamas leadership. I don’t think it’s fair or accurate to compare Hamas to the Nazis they’re not moral equivalents. The situations, ideologies, and histories are completely different. That kind of comparison just doesn’t really hold up when you look at the details.

Nor will the throngs of regular Palestinians who turned up to celebrate and gloat at every hostage/body return. So brave. And clearly so starving. 🙄

@ScrollingLeaves

"Among these were thousands of Palestinian Arabs who volunteered to serve with the British military, serving alongside Jewish volunteers from Mandate Palestine. They served in France, North Africa, Greece, and elsewhere in both combat and non-combat roles in the war against Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy."

For historical balance there were also large number of Arab volunteers to serve with the German military:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeArabiann_Legion

@1dayatatime Thank you that is interesting, and evidently the allegiances during this time were complicated. But I was particularly speaking of the 12000 Palestinian Arab volunteers who joined the British during WW11 in the Palestinian Legion, alongside Jews.

Whereas the article you linked says The Free Arab Legion was formed “from Arab volunteers from the Middle East, notably Iraq, and North Africa.” The Free Arab Legion were fighting against the British presence and joined Italy/Germany against them.

@dairydebris (thank you) also mentioned, for balance, that though they had not realised Palestinian Arabs had joined the British which I had just said in my post, the Palestinian ‘leadership’ was in with Hitler, which is true. That was the Grand Mufti Al-Husseini who had fled Mandatory Palestine to Iraq just before the war then to Germany. So he was not still in Palestine. Al-Husseini was fighting against British rule and Zionism hence he thought Hitler would help.

But 12000 Palestinian Arabs joined the Palestinian Legion together with Jews on the side of the British.

This is digression from the thread but it is interesting.

It was a very complicated period, under the Haavara Agreement, some Zionists in Germany collaborated with Hitlers Nazi party from 1933 to 1939 to facilitate the migration of Jewish German's to Palestine.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/history/article/2023/08/06/90-years-ago-a-negotiated-transfer-led-over-50-000-german-jews-to-palestine_6082440_157.html

Thank you, @BelleHathor Before today, I had little idea of any of these various alliances during that terrible time of WW11.

That agreement between The Jewish Agency and the Nazi regime in 1933 is very unexpected but it was lucky those 50,000 German Jews did get to escape persecution and death by emigrating to Israel via that agreement with the Nazis.

More anti-Hamas demonstrations in Gaza.

https://x.com/IhabHassane/status/1926621666764857617