Have the events of the last couple of days changed your mind on the Israel/Gaza crisis?

[BaMamma]

Not only, but including, the macabre theatre with the coffins of the Bibas babies, Oded Lifshitz, and, as we now know, a currently anonymous Palestinian woman.

The locked coffins with no keys.

The antisemitic poster of Netanyahu as a blood sucking vampire.

The celebrations in Gaza, happy, joyful people surrounding those coffins., children dancing, parents smiling.

The 'mix-up' over Shiri Bibas body.

The discovery that the babies were murdered, not killed in an airstrike.

Does any of that change your mind about the rightness of your position on Israel and Palestine/Gaza?

44% of Palestinians voted for Hamas 19 years ago!! Yes just 44%.

Over half the population there today were not even old enough to vote! You can't possibly say what the Palestinians might want from a Government today. It's not for you to decide what they want, it's for them. But if the threatened ethnic cleansing goes ahead there won't be a possibility of elections anyway.

@MissyB1 I strongly recommend the BBC doc ‘Israel and the Palestinians’. It’s a very comprehensive documentary which interviews Hamas leaders, Us officials, Israeli Prime Ministers. It will show you the extreme lengths the West has gone to to resolve the conflict, Israel forcibly removing Jewish people from Gaza (by force) to attempt resolution, and the sheer extent to which Hamas simply refuse to cooperate as their belief is no compromise. They want to rid Israel of Jews, preferably violently, and nothing else will do. Please just watch it, because your views on this topic are so Disney as to be at Primary School level.

I suggest you lobby Hamas and see how far you get in them allowing free elections in Gaza.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/21/people-gaza-future-hamas-poll

Please, I beg you, read some facts.

This is also very recent

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/11/amid-the-ceasefire-wrangling-how-popular-is-hamas-in-gaza-now

This was an excellent piece from the Guardian. Surprisingly balanced for them.

Yes it's to do with the way their electoral system works. I will link the explanation of what happened. Hamas literally got 44% of the votes.

slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-elected-to-govern-gaza-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html

That is irrelevant to the false ‘fact’ I debunked.

Labour got 33.7% of the vote in the last UK election.

Trump got 49.9% in the US.

44% of the popular vote wasn't particularly low for Hamas to gain power.

Mid-30s (Hamas current support in Gaza) is also not particularly low. They would almost certainly win if an election was called tomorrow.

I think they're still waiting for the Arab states to propose a 'day-after' solution, aren't they?

Any news on that?

Good thing I and many of the posters being harangued are not doing that then, isn’t it? Seeing as how we are commenting on the fact that Israel has violated several international laws and their PM is a wanted war criminal with an ICC arrest warrant.

Israel is being held to the same standard all UN countries are supposed to meet.

While it is true, that they aren’t uniquely the only country falling short, we also criticise those countries for their failings too. The amount of public protest by we fair-minded posters and others depends on whether our government is giving a country a pass (more protest) or not giving them a pass (less protest).

Which is more than our current government.

Hamas didn’t gain power by the votes or an election.
The 44% wasn’t enough to win.
They took over Gaza by force in a brief civil war in 2007.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)

Yes, sure - that's why you're protesting against the only Jewish state every single Saturday.

Uh-huh.

So what? They didn’t win by an election. Hamas took power by a civil war- essentially five days of going round and shooting the Fatah government officials that did win the election.

No one voted Hamas into power.

I’m not doing that.

Good, glad to hear it.

Please can you read the articles and still confirm that you believe Palestinians want to live in peace with Israel as a neighbour and democratic, liberal government?

My view hasnt changed about whatever palestinian rule, happens to be Hamas at the minute, is in power.
Everyone knows this has been goung on for years.
I recall reading a book written by an Irish nurse afair who worked in an Israel hospital near the border with lebanon. I remember her writing about the delays and harrassment from both sides crossing the border point.
Whilst I cant temember the name of the book or author a paragraph always remained with me, she was invited to a Doctors Family home for dinner, they were a muslim family and she held him in very esteem so accepted. In pride of place much like a picture of Jesus that you would have seen in many irish homes was a picture of hitler lit up. She was shocked and found it hard to reconcile this Doctor and his views on Hitler. She said such pictures were prevalent in muslim homes in the area.

I think it’s time to put this whole thing in context.

Over a million Jews were horrifically murdered in the Holocaust and God knows how many more were displaced, orphaned, or lost business/family/homes.

Britain, who Hitler didn’t really want to go to war with and probably would’ve given a softer deal, decided Nazi Germany’s invasion of Poland was unacceptable and sacrificed 400,000 soldiers and citizens to war and air strikes for the good of global peace.

At that time, countless countries lost significant numbers of people, many countries lost land or were reshaped, and millions of people were displaced. The biggest victims were the Jews, who were left (as usual) stateless and maligned.

What happened in terms of the creation of Israel and the displacement of Palestinians is not ideal, but they only went through what millions of people in the world were going through thanks to the tragic events previously. It was not a unique event and given the level of global suffering, it was not up there with the hardest done by in my opinion.

It’s time for Islamic countries to step up in providing permanent, safe homes for Palestinians because it’s very clear they will never be able to live in peace alongside Israel. What’s the alternative? More suffering and killing?

I would be very up for Western countries making significant financial donations to enable this to happen if needed.

Worse; it was nearly six million Jews killed in the Holocaust.

I stand corrected.

6 million.

Israel is a very liberal country and the only democracy in the Middle East.

I dread to think your opinion on Iraq where sex with children is about to be legalised. And no that’s not whatabboutery - you’re using my religion to imply that a state is of “low standards” but only ONE religion. Funny that

Well no because you’re comparing apples with oranges.

No dog has called for Chinese, Japanese, Germans etc to be exiled from their homeland and say they have no right to exist in their own state

I mean I’ve never known a weekly protest in London against any other country who objectively commit FAR worse atrocities, war crimes and human rights violations. Only weekly protests against the Jewish country. Why do you think that is?

To pretend there’s as much fuss around other countries is at best, ignorant and at worse, a flat out lie