Have the events of the last couple of days changed your mind on the Israel/Gaza crisis?

[BaMamma]

Not only, but including, the macabre theatre with the coffins of the Bibas babies, Oded Lifshitz, and, as we now know, a currently anonymous Palestinian woman.

The locked coffins with no keys.

The antisemitic poster of Netanyahu as a blood sucking vampire.

The celebrations in Gaza, happy, joyful people surrounding those coffins., children dancing, parents smiling.

The 'mix-up' over Shiri Bibas body.

The discovery that the babies were murdered, not killed in an airstrike.

Does any of that change your mind about the rightness of your position on Israel and Palestine/Gaza?

They were not hostages. They were prisoners. Israel did not take hostages. They are very different things, and words matter.

And if Hamas didn't wish to be invaded they shouldn't have first invaded Israel on 7 October. Because that was an invasion. Again, the truth matters.

What was Dr Hussam Abu Safiya?

Taken against his will and not allowed home.
Tortured.
Not charged with any crime.
No trial.
Sounds like a hostage to me.

What happened on October 7th is devastating but Israel's retaliation has been abhorrent to watch. They have one of the most sophisticated armies in the world and there is no question that the levels of death and destruction we have seen has been no accident.
There are many accounts from children who say they were shot by quadcopters whilst laying on the ground or running away from a blast or hit by snipers whilst running and these accounts are backed up by Drs who have given evidence of their wounds and pulling bullets out of the back of the skulls of children.

Equally if Hamas were hiding in the west bank, I truly believe the IDF would use completely different tactics to eradicate them rather than flattening the area and attributing the deaths of innocent Israelis in the area as collateral damage.

Dancing around the coffins of the hostages is understandably extremely distressing and sickening to watch but seen I've also clips of Israelis standing and watching missiles hitting Gaza from a hillside and cheering, them blocking aid and destroying supplies that were destined for Gazans.

Its absolutely devastating that 2 small children have died in such an unimaginable way, I can not imagine what their families are going through but please do not forget 18,000 children have been killed in this conflict. 33,000 children orphaned and Gaza is home to more amputee children than anywhere else in the world. Many of those amputations took place with no anaesthetic.

There are days where I can not believe that in this day and age, with the knowledge we have of the awful things that have happened in the past we are allowing this level of destruction to happen once again - this will never bring about peace! This conflict will never end with war - it needs diplomatic intervention.

I think another poster also made a valid point about the lack of education in the UK around what antisemitism actually looks like. I took have been surprised since doing some research and it has opened my eyes. I would be happy four our children to be better educated on these matters so perhaps you should petition the government to improve this.

Prisoner of war.
Possible war crime.

Not a hostage.

Directing attacks against medics is a war crime .

Another one to add to Israel's rap sheet, not that they give a feck about Human Rights anyway.

Well he has been attacked and tortured in Sde Teiman so that's a fact after he was unlawfully detained.

Good enough for you?

Where did you get this fact from? Could you link please?

Not really sure why you're being so combative, I'm just pointing out where you are factually incorrect.

I haven't noticed Palestinians in Gaza giving a feck about Human Rights where Israeli hostages are concerned, judging by their well fed and cheerful demeanor every time there is a hostage handover by Hamas. Looks like they're all enjoying a fun day out.

https://www.democracynow.org/2025/2/12/headlines/family_says_dr_hussam_abu_safiya_was_tortured_by_israeli_captors

There are some posters on this thread who refuse to acknowledge that Israel has done anything but behave perfectly and reasonably, despite evidence to the contrary.

Most average people have a more measured approach and can see awful actions on both sides.

“Oh and it makes no difference where the poster comes from”
It does in the sense that the data @statsfun provided is from the UK . @MassiveGoat is challenging that data and it would be interesting to know how familiar/ knowledgeable she or he is about the UK. I do live in the UK. I want everyone here to feel safe. I object to the pp attempts to downplay and gloss over hate crimes toward Jewish people.

I do accept that it’s fine to query facts and figures but the data and discrepancy is so remarkable that it is worth some attention.

Jewish people in the UK are not responsible for Netanyahu’s decisions ( any more than ordinary Muslims in the Uk are responsible for Hamas. )
Its sad that at a time when Jewish communities in the Uk are reeling from the atrocities of October 7th / hostage situation/ the deaths of the Bibas family- they are also being subjected to increased levels of hate crime .
It’s also very worrying that so many posters on here treat the account of hate crimes towards Jewish people as something to quibble with and score points over . You wouldn’t do that to any other minority without being rightfully accused of racism .

Which posters?

In the interests of fairness, the Palestinian detainees have also been returned looking very gaunt and are reporting of being tortured. I saw this on BBC news about a week ago. One of them could no longer walk!
The abuse is happening on both sides! Which is why peace needs to be secured and the remaining hostages returned.

The point I was trying to get across was the jubilation of Gazans during the handover of Israeli hostages. Jeering, cheering, families all out for a good time. Absolutely nauseating.

100% agree.

Weren't there cases of IDF soldiers celebrating whilst putting video's on social media of them detonating bombs in Gaza?

Not that this excuses people in Gaza cheering the hostages being handed over.

But its hard to read about one atrocity whilst ignoring the other.

Loads of examples of this the NY times had an article on it . Plus playing with the underwear they found belonging to Palestinian women and mocking them.

There was also photos of people signing bombs headed for Gaza. When googled it shows that this was from 2014 as was pictures of Israelis in deck chairs cheering everytime a bomb landed. Utterly depressing

So bad enough without making stuff up.

There are no Palestinian hostages, Israel didn't take any hostages, please stop calling them that.

Of course Israel has Palestinian hostages! If you forcefully take someone, lock them up without a trial, or any conviction of any crime, then that can certainly be regarded as taking a hostage.

No. That's illegally detaining someone, taking a prisoner.

A hostage is specifically taking someone as security for the fulfillment of a condition.

For God's sake, just Google it.

What did I make up?

This paediatrician.has been tortured and illegally detained.

You said there were Palestinian hostages. That's what you made up.

This honestly could have been sorted out in 2 posts.

Your second para could just as easily fit into the Israeli Governments modus operandi

’taking someone as security for the fulfilment of a condition’

…ie using them as bargaining chips.