Have the events of the last couple of days changed your mind on the Israel/Gaza crisis?

[BaMamma]

Not only, but including, the macabre theatre with the coffins of the Bibas babies, Oded Lifshitz, and, as we now know, a currently anonymous Palestinian woman.

The locked coffins with no keys.

The antisemitic poster of Netanyahu as a blood sucking vampire.

The celebrations in Gaza, happy, joyful people surrounding those coffins., children dancing, parents smiling.

The 'mix-up' over Shiri Bibas body.

The discovery that the babies were murdered, not killed in an airstrike.

Does any of that change your mind about the rightness of your position on Israel and Palestine/Gaza?

So, you are completely unaware of, and really don't care about, the blood libel against Jews since at least the Middle Ages

I’m aware of the blood libel and I’m slightly confused about what you think the link is to be opposed to ethnic cleansing? The Israeli government is right wing and corrupt, many Human Rights organisations have raised concerns about its behaviour in Palestine.

To conflate that with anti-semitism without any logical sense seems strange.

Jewish people deserve to live peacefully in Israel and around the World. Ultra nationalist corrupt governments targeting civilians deserve to be investigated and opposed.

The terrorist attack in 2023 was horrific. A good friends daughter was in Israel at the time and she couldn’t leave and was terrified. I can empathise with feelings or rage and upset.

i also can’t unsee thousands of children killed by the Israeli military.

What are you talking about? The image of Netanyahu was antisemitic. Very straightforward and unequivocally.

We’ll certainly given that the 600 Palestinians still haven’t been released today and recent intel on current discussions in Netanyahus meeting I think my mind has changed.
This war really is never going to end till nothing and no one is left.

Not sure what you are trying to say as the post I was responding to has been deleted, presumably for its offensive content.

The original question was
Have the events of the last couple of days changed your mind on the Israel/Gaza crisis?
It doesn’t sound like anyone has changed their thinking at all, which is worrying given impasse leaves little room for a better situation. How sad it all is.

Have you?

No @SharonEllis , have you? I don’t think anyone has posted to say they have changed though I may have missed some I suppose.

Why have they not been released yet?

Israel is also a country which which was created through acts of violent terrorism, the expulsion of a significant number of the people living there, the misappropriation of their property and land, and the betrayal of the Palestinian population by the British and other western governments. It is a refuge for Jewish people, but at the expense of the people who lived there previously. It has suffered violence, but also inflicted great violence, and not only in self-defence.

I don't think either side is well served by simplistic platitudes which seek to portray one side solely as innocent victim and the other solely as perpetrator. Shiri Bibas and her children were solely innocent victims. The state of Israel is not.

Well said 👏

My mind hasn't changed at all. It's been interesting watching posts across the internet from anti Palestinian people over the past few days though, I've found it really very jarring to see so many people not even trying to hide the lack of equivalence they hold towards Israeli and Palestinian lives.

Is it a lack of equivalence, though?

For me, it’s the way those children’s bodies were paraded, with people cheering at and celebrating their murder. And the horror of a 10 month old baby most likely being beaten to death by one or more grown men.

I have just been sent this from Twitter, I honestly didn't think we could sink any lower.....

x.com/vividprowess/status/1893373862156403187?s=46&t=_U-VUkxI5FXjgRzpzOgCSQ

Lit torches? Why are we putting up with this??? Disgusting

Great post

Exactly

Not in Twitter, what is it?

@BaMamma it's a protest today, in London.
Led by a "funeral march" flanked by people masked and holding lit torches.
The "coffin" is draped with fabric woth the words "we will honour our martyrs ".

Tasteless, inflammatory & just such a low move.

Apologies the one leading has face covered. It's chilling.

Good grief

The use of the word martyr worries me. I don’t think it translates in the way it is understood in the west, so I am never comfortable with what is being said. My understanding was it means something similar to “in a state of grace” would to Christian’s (I’m sorry I don’t know an equivalent for Jews). So you would be considered a martyr if you drowned, or died from childbirth, or other named deaths, but what that means I do not understand.

Just trying to understand what is wrong with this Muslim lady wearing a niqab? And also what is wrong with Palestinians in London grieving the thousands dead in Gaza? This was a march planned days before to mark 500 days of genocide in Gaza. It was not about the events in this thread. What I find more scary is sharing news without context and all the comments under the post on Twitter: "London is lost" "All they need is pitchforks and tails" "Terrorists, deport them all". They are human too. I know Palestinians here and they are lovely, but heartbroken by what is happening.

It is used for anyone killed in the conflict ie "victim" of a conflict/killed by an enemy. It is one of the many ways in Arabic of saying "dead".