Page 4 | Breaking News - Shiri Bibas has not been returned

AniBocha · 2025-02-20T23:38:50+00:00

[[https://news.sky.com/story/israel-says-it-has-not-received-hostages-remains-and-hamas-handed-over-unidentified-body-13313681 https://news.sky.com/story/israel-says-it-has-not-received-hostages-remains-and-hamas-handed-over-unidentified-body-13313681]] As if the anguish isn't enough!

OpheliaWasntMad · 21/02/2025 18:31

Peripop · 21/02/2025 18:19

The findings could be fabricated, they could freely distribute them but how can they be verified? 🤷‍♀️

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You hope …🙄

Peripop · 21/02/2025 18:33

OpheliaWasntMad · 21/02/2025 18:31

You hope …🙄

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Not at all. What i hope is that there is a swift peaceful end to all of it.

DoubleShotEspresso · 21/02/2025 18:41

EllaDisenchanted · 21/02/2025 14:23

@EmilyDickinson Unknown about Shiri, but IDF spokesperson just released following information:

*TRIGGER WARNING ‼️ *

We can confirm that baby Kfir Bibas, just 10 months old, and his older brother Ariel, aged four, were both brutally murdered by terrorists while being held hostage in Gaza no later than November 2023. These two innocent children were taken hostage alive, along with their mother, Shiri, from their home on October 7, 2023,” IDF Spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari says
“Contrary to Hamas’s lies, Ariel and Kfir were not killed in an airstrike. Ariel and Kfir Bibas were murdered in cold blood by terrorists,” he says. “The terrorists did not shoot the two young boys — they killed them with their bare hands. Afterwards, they committed horrific acts to cover up these atrocities. This assessment is based on forensic findings and intelligence that supports these conclusions. We have shared this intelligence and the forensic findings with our partners around the world so they can verify it.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-february-21-2025/#liveblog-entry-3487987

Edited

This is wickedness. Sickening. What evil bastards this sick, brainwashed people must be.
I just cannot comprehend

Original poster

AniBocha · 21/02/2025 18:41

When the terrorists organisation that is the hamas health ministry indicate civilian deaths there are no such outcries by pro gazan supporters about the fact these are unverified.

OP posts:

MyCatHatesSandals · 21/02/2025 18:48

Liv999 · 21/02/2025 12:59

That's not the question I asked though

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You weren't really asking a question; you were making an implicit statement.

LoremIpsumCici · 21/02/2025 18:49

Hamas informed Israel that the Bibas boys and their mother Shiri had been killed in an airstrike in November 2023. This was not believed at the time and one of the reasons the ceasefire failed then.

Now, we know from the state of the remains that the boys’ bodies have been dead at least since November 2023, so we know the time of death might not be a lie.

15 months of decomposition would erase evidence of killing “with their bare hands” unless they were refrigerated? I am not sure if there was the electricity to accomplish that over a very hot summer in 2024. I think it’s best to wait for a formally published forensic report to know specific probable causes of death.

The staging of the handover was so overtly propagandist it was infantile. Bibi as Count Dracula isn’t fooling anyone. At least each body had a coffin. I almost expected to see the same sort of plastic hospital body bags that IDF has used to deliver very decomposed disappeared people back to Gaza in.

hihelenhi · 21/02/2025 18:51

Peripop · 21/02/2025 18:19

The findings could be fabricated, they could freely distribute them but how can they be verified? 🤷‍♀️

Show quote history

I find the absolute desperation to believe that Israel & the IDF must be lying (because all Jews lie and can't be trusted, right?) but Hamas somehow can't be even when they've paraded the coffins of those murdered children in front of cheering crowds and blatant anti Semitic propagandist imagery very telling.

A bit like people's refusal to believe that the gleeful bodycam footage taken of the massacres, torture, rapes, brutal murders of Oct 7 (of teenagers at a peace festival, of elderly people at bus stops, of known peace activists and their families in certainly not known to be remotely-right-wing or Netanyahu supporting kibbutzes) could possibly be true of their fondly imagined oppressed Gazan citizens. It's blatant anti-semitism, through and through. They were killed because they were Jews and it happened to be easy BECAUSE many were helping Palestinians and naively thought this was the right thing to do. Apparently not. And there were people in London smiling, cheering and celebrating this massacre as "resistance" while claiming to be "left wing" and somehow on the right side of history. Oh, and Israel's existence and its location doesn't exist in a vacuum either. (And historically included violent displacement from their own land by whom?)

hihelenhi · 21/02/2025 18:53

AniBocha · 21/02/2025 18:41

When the terrorists organisation that is the hamas health ministry indicate civilian deaths there are no such outcries by pro gazan supporters about the fact these are unverified.

Quite. Funny that, isn't it?

But apparently, people just can't see it. Dissonance at its finest.

LoremIpsumCici · 21/02/2025 18:53

AniBocha · 21/02/2025 18:41

When the terrorists organisation that is the hamas health ministry indicate civilian deaths there are no such outcries by pro gazan supporters about the fact these are unverified.

The death tolls are heavily scrutinised by outside experts though. Last year a lancet study estimated that the deaths are likely undercounted by a factor of 4
https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3.pdf

EdithStourton · 21/02/2025 18:57

YellowDaffodilRedTulip · 21/02/2025 17:07

I wonder if they even know whose body is whose?
The children would have been fairly obvious. But if she did die in an air strike it was probably along with several other women. And after a year it’s going to be hard to distinguish one body from another.

I can’t imagine Hamas did this on purpose, they have nothing to gain and a lot to lose.

<head explodes>
Hamas and their allies:
murdered, in cold blood, people at a music festival
murdered entire families in their homes, including mutilating family members in front of each other
paraded the body of a young woman around on the back of a truck (Shani Louk, if you've forgotten her)
boasted of killing Jews ('Mother! Mother! I have killed Jews with my own hands!')
carried people away as hostages, including children
held them as hostages, some for over 500 days (still holds some)
tortured and starved some of their hostages
allowed no contact between the hostages and their families, who didn't know if they were alive or dead
said hostages were dead when they were alive

And now, we have some people on this thread going, oh no, Hamas and their allies might NOT have murdered the Bibas children - we know the Jews IDF tell lies!
And you:
Oh, they might have mixed the bodies up my mistake....
Can you really think that is the most likely scenario, given the behaviour of Hamas et al of late?

Years ago, probably 40 years ago when I was a teenager and had hopes that the world would be a much better place in the future, I read a poem called 'The Murder of Bellet and Hannah'. It was written in what is now Germany in about 1200, by a (Jewish) man whose wife and daughters were slaughtered by rampaging Crusaders. It has stuck in my mind ever since. And 800-odd years after it was written, Jewish children are yet again being killed entirely because they are Jews, and as no doubt happened then, people are making excuses for the murderers.

Go figure.

NB I'm not Jewish. But I am sickened by that spectacle of coffins.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/02/2025 18:58

LoremIpsumCici · 21/02/2025 18:49

Hamas informed Israel that the Bibas boys and their mother Shiri had been killed in an airstrike in November 2023. This was not believed at the time and one of the reasons the ceasefire failed then.

Now, we know from the state of the remains that the boys’ bodies have been dead at least since November 2023, so we know the time of death might not be a lie.

15 months of decomposition would erase evidence of killing “with their bare hands” unless they were refrigerated? I am not sure if there was the electricity to accomplish that over a very hot summer in 2024. I think it’s best to wait for a formally published forensic report to know specific probable causes of death.

The staging of the handover was so overtly propagandist it was infantile. Bibi as Count Dracula isn’t fooling anyone. At least each body had a coffin. I almost expected to see the same sort of plastic hospital body bags that IDF has used to deliver very decomposed disappeared people back to Gaza in.

No it won't.

Strangling cause the hyoid bone to fracture.

EdithStourton · 21/02/2025 18:59

15 months of decomposition would erase evidence of killing “with their bare hands” unless they were refrigerated?
Whoever posted that hasn't watched enough police procedurals. Broken hyoid bones are a bit of a giveaway.

EdithStourton · 21/02/2025 19:00

x-post with @ChardonnaysBeastlyCat

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/02/2025 19:01

EdithStourton · 21/02/2025 19:00

x-post with @ChardonnaysBeastlyCat

It's so obvious, isn't it?

It's just people don't want to see it.

LoremIpsumCici · 21/02/2025 19:04

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/02/2025 18:58

No it won't.

Strangling cause the hyoid bone to fracture.

Show quote history

So can a falling piece of rubble to the neck.
You’re assuming strangulation btw.

The phrasing of “killed with their bare hands” is not how a forensic pathologist would describe any cause of death. It is too click baity and sensationalist.

I am sorry, but I too would like to hear from a forensics expert before being sure. The first responders to Oct 7th got a few causes of death wrong as well. It’s not a case of lying, but not knowing exactly what you are seeing as a layman.

EdithStourton · 21/02/2025 19:08

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/02/2025 19:01

It's so obvious, isn't it?

It's just people don't want to see it.

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Yep.
All this 'oh, but we need to look at the history of this conflict...'
While the history would obviously matter when discussing any sort of peace process (with Hamas? good luck with that...) it should be irrelevant when it comes to lives of little children, killed in cold blood for being Jews.

That is why they were killed.
Because they were Jews.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/02/2025 19:09

LoremIpsumCici · 21/02/2025 19:04

So can a falling piece of rubble to the neck.
You’re assuming strangulation btw.

The phrasing of “killed with their bare hands” is not how a forensic pathologist would describe any cause of death. It is too click baity and sensationalist.

I am sorry, but I too would like to hear from a forensics expert before being sure. The first responders to Oct 7th got a few causes of death wrong as well. It’s not a case of lying, but not knowing exactly what you are seeing as a layman.

Show quote history

What, two falling bits of debris hit the two young children in exactly the way as to fracture a tiny bone inside their throat?

Really?

Enough4me · 21/02/2025 19:14

Two pieces of wall falling at just the right places and no doubt missing skulls/ribs etc?
Versus people who hate jews strangling them?
I mean, yes obviously the first option is plausible.

Enough4me · 21/02/2025 19:15

It's an easy mistake to mix up bodies too, sure they couldn't have checked clothes/hair etc.
Almost like it was done to create pain over people they openly hate.

inamarina · 21/02/2025 19:20

LoremIpsumCici · 21/02/2025 18:49

Hamas informed Israel that the Bibas boys and their mother Shiri had been killed in an airstrike in November 2023. This was not believed at the time and one of the reasons the ceasefire failed then.

Now, we know from the state of the remains that the boys’ bodies have been dead at least since November 2023, so we know the time of death might not be a lie.

15 months of decomposition would erase evidence of killing “with their bare hands” unless they were refrigerated? I am not sure if there was the electricity to accomplish that over a very hot summer in 2024. I think it’s best to wait for a formally published forensic report to know specific probable causes of death.

The staging of the handover was so overtly propagandist it was infantile. Bibi as Count Dracula isn’t fooling anyone. At least each body had a coffin. I almost expected to see the same sort of plastic hospital body bags that IDF has used to deliver very decomposed disappeared people back to Gaza in.

Hamas informed Israel that the Bibas boys and their mother Shiri had been killed in an airstrike in November 2023.

the boys’ bodies have been dead at least since November 2023, so we know the time of death might not be a lie.

So because there were air strikes happening around that time it’s easier to believe the Bibas children died during one of those rather being murdered by the same people who murdered over a thousand people from the same community as the children only a month previously?

LoremIpsumCici · 21/02/2025 19:24

There has been no report of their hyoid bones broken or otherwise.
While in Gaza there were hundreds of different ways to die/be killed.

Daniel Hagari, the IDF spokesperson who announced this news, has been grossly mistaken before in his hurried press releases, so yes, I will wait to be sure. Remember the Hamas guard roster that was a calendar? Remember the Hamas command and control centre with tunnel that was an access shaft to a water reservoir?

The bodies only arrived at Abu Kabir less than 24hrs ago and the last thing Abu Kabir said was it will take at least 48hrs to examine the bodies.

LoremIpsumCici · 21/02/2025 19:25

inamarina · 21/02/2025 19:20

Hamas informed Israel that the Bibas boys and their mother Shiri had been killed in an airstrike in November 2023.

the boys’ bodies have been dead at least since November 2023, so we know the time of death might not be a lie.

So because there were air strikes happening around that time it’s easier to believe the Bibas children died during one of those rather being murdered by the same people who murdered over a thousand people from the same community as the children only a month previously?

Show quote history

No. I am waiting for Abu Kabir’s forensic report. I am not believing one narrative over another.

ArtTheClown · 21/02/2025 19:25

What, two falling bits of debris hit the two young children in exactly the way as to fracture a tiny bone inside their throat?

Surely more plausible than Jews telling the truth though, right?

Peripop · 21/02/2025 19:27

hihelenhi · 21/02/2025 18:51

I find the absolute desperation to believe that Israel & the IDF must be lying (because all Jews lie and can't be trusted, right?) but Hamas somehow can't be even when they've paraded the coffins of those murdered children in front of cheering crowds and blatant anti Semitic propagandist imagery very telling.

A bit like people's refusal to believe that the gleeful bodycam footage taken of the massacres, torture, rapes, brutal murders of Oct 7 (of teenagers at a peace festival, of elderly people at bus stops, of known peace activists and their families in certainly not known to be remotely-right-wing or Netanyahu supporting kibbutzes) could possibly be true of their fondly imagined oppressed Gazan citizens. It's blatant anti-semitism, through and through. They were killed because they were Jews and it happened to be easy BECAUSE many were helping Palestinians and naively thought this was the right thing to do. Apparently not. And there were people in London smiling, cheering and celebrating this massacre as "resistance" while claiming to be "left wing" and somehow on the right side of history. Oh, and Israel's existence and its location doesn't exist in a vacuum either. (And historically included violent displacement from their own land by whom?)

Show quote history

Except that that isnt what i've said - i believe either or both sides could be lying.

Xenia · 21/02/2025 19:30

Hamas is not to be trusted a single inch. The sooner they have not a single supporter on the planet and don't exist the better.