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Conflict in the Middle East

How did you get to your current position on the crisis in the Middle East?

244 replies

BaMamma · 12/02/2025 21:59

Following a poster's comment about her views on Israel/Palestine changing after October 7th, I wonder if other posters' views have changed or if they've been constant since first learning of this issue?

For my part I've always been left leaning and tended to accept the narrative around in the 80s and 90s about how terrible Israel was and awfully they treated the Palestinians, I recall the phrase 'the prisoners have become the prison guards' being bandied about quite a bit. I'll admit I didn't think about it too deeply, even though I had visited Israel as a kid and loved it.
I was at a friend of a friend's house when the Ramallah incident was playing out on the TV screens, he had 24-hour news on and that's all it seemed to be showing. I was appalled at the violence, but he was chuckling, supporting the barbarians tearing those men apart, raising bloodied hands to the crowds.
So, I started reading and kept on reading and thinking and came to an understanding of Israel as the only democracy in the Middle East and the only home for Jews in the world, surrounded by Muslim neighbors. I began to see the conflict in world history terms rather than just Palestine vs Israel and saw the necessity of a Jewish state.

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wordsworthundercover · 13/02/2025 23:14

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That's a terrible thing to say.

ExercicenformedeZ · 13/02/2025 23:15

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25milesfromhome · 13/02/2025 23:15

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OpheliaWasntMad · 13/02/2025 23:18

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This is unacceptable and I will report this post.
There were many Irish who fought with the allies ( even though Ireland was neutral)

OpheliaWasntMad · 13/02/2025 23:19

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Reported

wordsworthundercover · 13/02/2025 23:19

@25milesfromhome You are free to share the sources which helped form your views? Why are you telling @Dianapiano to stand down? It sounds rather over the top.

Fifiworks · 13/02/2025 23:19

Do not go reporting that post. I think it demonstrates an important viewpoint. One that we need to see. That supporting Palestinians is equal with supporting terrorism in many people’s minds.

PotaytoPotahhto · 13/02/2025 23:20

Dianapiano · 13/02/2025 23:14

@25milesfromhome
That is not fair. The premise of the thread is to explain how you reached your current position on the Middle East. For most people it is by watching documentaries, reading scholarly articles and even by engaging in discussion on forums such as Mumsnet.
It is you who is derailing the process. Not posters who are sharing useful sources to explain the background to the issue.

Agreed. I thought the point of this thread was to share opinions and what led you to those opinions. Documentaries detailing the plight of Palestinians can be part of the process. Not sure why that’s so outrageous for OP and others.

25milesfromhome · 13/02/2025 23:23

wordsworthundercover · 13/02/2025 23:19

@25milesfromhome You are free to share the sources which helped form your views? Why are you telling @Dianapiano to stand down? It sounds rather over the top.

Touched a nerve?

OpheliaWasntMad · 13/02/2025 23:26

A shame this thread has descended into point scoring.. It was quite civilised and informative for a while .
I think I’ll stop reading it now.

wordsworthundercover · 13/02/2025 23:28

25milesfromhome · 13/02/2025 23:23

Touched a nerve?

I don't understand what you mean. Your writing style comes across as aggressive, even if you don't mean to be. But I'd be happy to check out any films or documentaries you personally found useful.

wordsworthundercover · 13/02/2025 23:48

@25milesfromhome Not sure why you are posting a laughing emoji.

wordsworthundercover · 13/02/2025 23:59

@25milesfromhome And another laughing emoji. Well, maybe I now have my own dedicated fan. In all seriousness, I think it's important to listen to all views because how else can you have an informed opinion? Perhaps you will make some suggestions for sources that have led you to your own position some time.

PotaytoPotahhto · 14/02/2025 00:01

Well done on calling out the pettiness of the laughing emojis. One of the posters who laughed at my post explaining why I support Palestinians subsequently removed her laughing emoji. Luckily I made a note of their username so I can spot them next time they think it’s funny to laugh at dead Palestinians and name them too.

BaMamma · 14/02/2025 00:13

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BaMamma · 14/02/2025 00:14

Thanks to those who have engaged with this question in good faith and explained their positions and how they arrived at them.

It's a shame some people simply can't do that.

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PotaytoPotahhto · 14/02/2025 00:18

Your second paragraph is hardly in good faith. It’s quite derogatory to anyone who chooses to watch documentaries. Watching a documentary doesn’t mean that no reading or research is done either. The two are not mutually exclusive. It’s quite telling that’s how you comment on posts that detail documentaries that are sympathetic towards Palestinians.

Seeing as you’re of the viewpoint that your research is unbiased and truthful, perhaps it might help if you detail the books you have read on the matter.

BaMamma · 14/02/2025 00:20

PotaytoPotahhto · 14/02/2025 00:18

Your second paragraph is hardly in good faith. It’s quite derogatory to anyone who chooses to watch documentaries. Watching a documentary doesn’t mean that no reading or research is done either. The two are not mutually exclusive. It’s quite telling that’s how you comment on posts that detail documentaries that are sympathetic towards Palestinians.

Seeing as you’re of the viewpoint that your research is unbiased and truthful, perhaps it might help if you detail the books you have read on the matter.

"emotive documentaries"

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wordsworthundercover · 14/02/2025 00:20

@BaMamma What books would you recommend?

mouthpipette · 14/02/2025 00:22

SharonEllis · 13/02/2025 19:37

This is simply not true. Look up Moses Montefiore.

Thank you for the ref, I was aware of him, but brushed up after the link. Yes, he did a lot for the Jews in Palestine in the mid 1800's. He was a philanthropist and helped the Jewish population there. But they were still the minority and very much so. When they started coming in in great numbers, that's when the problems started.

From WIKI
According to the 1871-72 census, the total population of Palestine, excluding the Bedouin, was 381,954 residents. Of them, about 85 percent were Muslims (Druze were included in that category by the Ottomans), 11 percent were Christians and 4 percent Jews.

BaMamma · 14/02/2025 00:25

wordsworthundercover · 14/02/2025 00:20

@BaMamma What books would you recommend?

Honestly couldn't tell you. I took some history courses at uni, and did a lot of reading around issues, and used my brain to come to my opinions.

I also pay attention to the amount of emotional blackmail and ad hominems coming from the pro-Palestinian side and find it deeply offensive, eg 'you don't care about the babies (the babies!!!) in Palestine, you're sick in the head.'

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mouthpipette · 14/02/2025 00:26

I haven't looked at the data, but,

"Montefiore commissioned several censuses of the Yishuv, or Jewish community in Palestine: these were conducted in 1839, 1849, 1855, 1866 and 1875, and provided much data about the people. The censuses attempted to list every Jew individually, together with some biographical and social information (such as their family structure, place of origin, and degree of poverty)"

I surmise it was done thoroughly, probably right down to shul seat numbers.

PotaytoPotahhto · 14/02/2025 00:32

BaMamma · 14/02/2025 00:25

Honestly couldn't tell you. I took some history courses at uni, and did a lot of reading around issues, and used my brain to come to my opinions.

I also pay attention to the amount of emotional blackmail and ad hominems coming from the pro-Palestinian side and find it deeply offensive, eg 'you don't care about the babies (the babies!!!) in Palestine, you're sick in the head.'

I am a history graduate and have taken further courses on the Middle East as it is a special interest of mine.

I also watch emotive documentaries shock horror.

An emotive documentary is about editing, not the veracity of its content.

Fifiworks · 14/02/2025 00:32

Well people are sick in the head if they don’t care about babies. I’m sure most people on this thread don’t actually want to kill babies. Even the loudest voices I’d hope,

it’s ok to challenge each others beliefs. We are not at the table for the negotiations.

BaMamma · 14/02/2025 00:37

Fifiworks · 14/02/2025 00:32

Well people are sick in the head if they don’t care about babies. I’m sure most people on this thread don’t actually want to kill babies. Even the loudest voices I’d hope,

it’s ok to challenge each others beliefs. We are not at the table for the negotiations.

Of course no one wants to kill babies, but if that's all you can talk about then we can't get very far in any discussion.

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