How did you get to your current position on the crisis in the Middle East?

[BaMamma]

Following a poster's comment about her views on Israel/Palestine changing after October 7th, I wonder if other posters' views have changed or if they've been constant since first learning of this issue?

For my part I've always been left leaning and tended to accept the narrative around in the 80s and 90s about how terrible Israel was and awfully they treated the Palestinians, I recall the phrase 'the prisoners have become the prison guards' being bandied about quite a bit. I'll admit I didn't think about it too deeply, even though I had visited Israel as a kid and loved it.
I was at a friend of a friend's house when the Ramallah incident was playing out on the TV screens, he had 24-hour news on and that's all it seemed to be showing. I was appalled at the violence, but he was chuckling, supporting the barbarians tearing those men apart, raising bloodied hands to the crowds.
So, I started reading and kept on reading and thinking and came to an understanding of Israel as the only democracy in the Middle East and the only home for Jews in the world, surrounded by Muslim neighbors. I began to see the conflict in world history terms rather than just Palestine vs Israel and saw the necessity of a Jewish state.

@1dayatatime exactly. What makes Gaza unique to any other of the situations you have mentioned?
The rabid views on this are typical of people with no connection that think they know best. From the comfort of their own homes thousands of miles away.

I never said I wanted them prevented from going anywhere so no idea why you're putting those words in my mouth.

I simply made the point that anyone leaving can't be said to be doing so voluntarily. I've said it 3 or 4 times now.

@Lalaloveya I agree with you.

Trump spouting bullshit about owning Gaza is not helping anyone, at the end of the day it's the Palestinians who get to decide if they leave their home voluntarily or not, no one else

Yep some idiotic statements are made on these threads.

@Lalaloveya

"I never said I wanted them prevented from going anywhere so no idea why you're putting those words in my mouth.

I simply made the point that anyone leaving can't be said to be doing so voluntarily. I've said it 3 or 4 times now."

So on that logic any refugee from any country seeking asylum is not doing it voluntarily, they are doing it because their country has been devastated or they fear prosecution. Which is a fair enough interpretation.

What I am trying to distinguish between is a) forced migration where an army says to civilians en masse you need to leave this country/ area or we will kill you. For example Bosnians in the Serbian war or Germans after WW2 by the Russians.

And b) where individual civilians fear for their safety and choose to leave an area / country because if they stay they believe they will be persecuted, imprisoned or killed.

But now that we've established that you have no objection to civilians being prevented from leaving Gaza and choosing to do so, the question turns to where could they go and which countries would be willing to do so.

I strongly object to Egypt and especially Jordan being asked to host such refugees as they have done more than enough in hosting Palestinian refugees in the past and are financially poorer.

I am pro the 2 state solution, with details and borders to be agreed by the people currently living in Israel and Palestine, and them only. No West, no Qatar, no Arab states. Of course, they will all assist, but let the guys with the issue decide how they want to resolve the issue.
Maybe, one day in the future, they will be a coalition or single country. Their decission.

How did I get here?
Israel won Eurovision the year I was born. My father used to sing the song to me and dance. I learnt the name and location of the country at an early age, because of this. I was around 8 when I realised Israel had been in the news for more than a year, due to war. I asked my father why other conflicts were solved, but not this one. He had no answer for me. That time, in my place of birth, Israel was seeing as a little country surrounded by hostile enemies. As I grew up, the conflict remained. This is the conflict that broke my faith in humankind; as a child, and still today..., I could not get my head around why the world governments were not pacifing this. I remember talks of peace, then Rabin was killed. Netanyahu took government. I dislike Netanyahu since that day onwards, as the obstacle to peace. After the Gaza war destruction, I got to the final conclusion that Israel is not an innocent party on this, at all. They financed Hamas on its beginings. That is mind blowing to me! Netanyahu is still in power and still causing exactly the same issues, but in the yet greatest scale ever known to this conflict.
Time for that Peace to become real. No more of this Greater Israel warring. No more Hamas. No more Hezbollah. No more Likud and far far far right movements. Respect for the children born in this land, please.

On the Gazans leaving, Trump has not said anything as been voluntary, but compulsory. Also, he is forcing other sovereign countries- Egypt and Jordan, though he has also mentioned the European States who dared recognise Palestine as a country- to do what he commands, as per his speech.

Nobody should be in favour of this forced deportation and imposition on sovereign states. It is plainly inmoral and illegal.
Neither preventing anyone from requesting assylum and leaving, if they want to do so.

Let's remind Trump, Netanyahu and Hamas that these are human beings, and so they can think and act on their own.

I’m Irish, so Israel has long been suspicious of us. My parents believe that the USA is basically a puppet state of Israel. My position would be considered relatively pro-Israeli for Ireland.

I believe that the October 7th attacks were an abomination. I believe that the asymmetric response is also an abomination, and genocide. I think bombing children’s hospitals and then feigning surprise at the response of those whom you have bereaved is trolling.

There are definitely people in Hamas who wish for the extermination of all Jews. Equally there are many people in Israel, who would be happy if Palestinians were ‘removed’, and would feign surprise if this was quietly brought into place via genocide.
The reason this genocide upsets me more than others- is because I am expected to pay for it. The canard of “ignore what we do to the Palestinians until you have solved all the worlds problems” is disgusting.

To those who say the Palestinians have brought this on themselves, I ask “only the Palestinians? We might have to agree to differ there.”

@User0103 ”I’m Irish so Israel has long been suspicious of us”. I guess that’s one way of looking at it.

I have no idea what this means. Why would Israel be suspicious of Irish people? @User0103

As I am short of time, I will refer you to the post above yours.

@EasyTouch Yes, I am Irish and the anti semitism of Ireland disgusts and appals me.

@AzurePanda are you from ROI?

all seems rosy according to the embassy at that time. It soon started to sour when Ireland kept yapping on about human rights and what not.

@Fifiworks I could link to dozens of tweets from the same account highlighting despicable incidences of Anti-Semitism.

Long story short: I was challenged to go see the West Bank. And I did - deliberately choosing "the Palestinian way", as in: avoid the bypass roads. Take a Service to Qalandia. Get out, queue, do more of the same again for every city.

And what I saw was not in line with my idea of "equal rights". Moving between Ramallah and Nablus is nothing like moving between Tel Aviv and Netanya!

Went there on business. Spent a weekend on "personal research" because I was questioned. Returned horrified, asked to lay down my mandate on the ground of "I do not want any part in any of this - this is inhumane and morally wrong!"

Very interesting @SomeWomanSomewhere . Were you living in Israel at the time?

@SomeWomanSomewhere yes it’s awful the lengths Israel has to go to in order to protect its citizens from attack. Just yesterday 3 buses were blown up south of Tel Aviv.

And of course since 2005, Israeli’s were barred from entering Gaza except in exceptional circumstances.