How did you get to your current position on the crisis in the Middle East?

[BaMamma]

Following a poster's comment about her views on Israel/Palestine changing after October 7th, I wonder if other posters' views have changed or if they've been constant since first learning of this issue?

For my part I've always been left leaning and tended to accept the narrative around in the 80s and 90s about how terrible Israel was and awfully they treated the Palestinians, I recall the phrase 'the prisoners have become the prison guards' being bandied about quite a bit. I'll admit I didn't think about it too deeply, even though I had visited Israel as a kid and loved it.
I was at a friend of a friend's house when the Ramallah incident was playing out on the TV screens, he had 24-hour news on and that's all it seemed to be showing. I was appalled at the violence, but he was chuckling, supporting the barbarians tearing those men apart, raising bloodied hands to the crowds.
So, I started reading and kept on reading and thinking and came to an understanding of Israel as the only democracy in the Middle East and the only home for Jews in the world, surrounded by Muslim neighbors. I began to see the conflict in world history terms rather than just Palestine vs Israel and saw the necessity of a Jewish state.

Yes I get the nasty emojis too. Why people think pointing out antisemitism, prejudice and misinformation is funny I'll never know but whatever turns you on.

As a leftie (until the corbyn years) I was broadly on the side of Palestine as the oppressed people. This started to change as I learned more about The conflict and realised it was far more nuanced than most of us can appreciate. The marches and rise in antisemitism changed my viewpoint forever. I still lean left but I can't accept the simplistic notion that Israel = bad, Palestine = good. The outpouring of public hatred towards Jewish people has been despicable and serves to strengthen the necessity of a Jewish state.

I'm sorry to hear that @SharonEllis I usually ignore it, but I don't think there's any rule about picking people up on it, if you wanted to.

Thank you WeepingPlant

I think Mumsnet should remove the laughing emoji option, if it's being misused as much as people have said on this thread. I think I preferred it when 'thanks' was the only option, before all the emojis.
Whatever your view on the middle-east, it's an extremely serious issue, and no laughing matter. Nobody's suffering (Israeli, Palestinian or other) should ever be made light off. All life is sacred.

I do rather agree. I like being able to send a laughing emoji when someone is actually funny, but it's too easy to abuse.

Why would it start in October though? This has been ongoing since 1948. It is clear which side has weapons and money. David and Goliath.

No
It's been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years.

And what happened in those 100's and 1000's of years is pertinent to current situation.

I suppose this is my fault for engaging 🙄.
Why wang on about October? Again, because it's pertinent. Lots of people are dead because of it. More people may yet die because of it. If you don't care about that go read another thread. Or, even better, go read a book.

There we go then, you want everyone to agree and yet ask why people don't without listening. The rest of the world does have their own eyes and media. We can see what has happened. Lots of people are dead because the men on both sides keep engaging in war - an eye for an eye. It's archaic and actually ridiculous to think this is some high brow debate.

No,
The first Aliyah at the end of the 19th century was when the seeds were being sown, with Jewish refugees from Eastern Europe entering, at an increasing rate, a land that had been relatively peacefully populated by Palestinian Jews (about 5% ) and the Palestinian Muslim majority of about 90%.
Up until about 1870, most Jews had absolutely no interest in creating Israel. And even at the end of the 19th century when the Jews were pouring out from Eastern Europe, most wanted to go to either the UK or America. My grandparents chose the UK.

This isn't a back and forth thread. Just introduce yourself and your view and how you got there

Your words, not mine.

This is so sad.
No. Jewish people have been present on the land since Biblical times. All their most sacred sites are there. The ruins of Herod's temple are underneath the Haram. The Western Wall is 1000's of years old. The Persians have sacked the city, the Romans have sacked the city, the European Christians have sacked the city, the Muslims have sacked the city. The Jews have always been there. They have never, ever forgotten it and they never will. I find the story of their resilience amazing. I think you're missing out not knowing it.

Yeah. Kicking myself tbh. Still, here we are.

Agree - on all points

I got to my position on the Middle East crisis by knowing right from wrong.

This is similar to where I am.
I am still very sympathetic to ordinary Palestinians but October 7th was so hideous that it did have a massive impact on me .
And then the weekly March in London- I couldn’t get my head around why, in the immediate aftermath of October 7th - there was condemnation of Israel but no reference to Hamas or the hostages. Nearly all my friends are very pro Palestine ( which is fine ) but it was impossible to speak to them about the hostages or to get them to speak about Hamas. It felt very uncomfortable trying to have an honest conversation.
I came on here as a safe space to find out more and to hone my views ( and my argument)

This is an interesting thread OP!

This is simply not true. Look up Moses Montefiore.

You've missed the subsequent months of children and mothers being blown apart and complete annihilation of cities and mass migration then? How curious.

I thought this was supposed to be an honest exchange of how we came to our views? My post was in that context. I’m not looking for a debate

No , Judaism was there long before Islam.