Do people fully support Palestine?

[Dawk]

I read this article and the scales fell from my eyes a bit: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/11/amid-the-ceasefire-wrangling-how-popular-is-hamas-in-gaza-now

I hadn’t realised that a majority of Gazans want a conservative Islamist state and the complete destruction of Israel to create an Islamic state covering the whole country (from the river to the sea I guess). They also support violence and even the sacrifice of their own lives.

I am appalled by the destruction and loss of life in Gaza, but having read this article I can’t understand why support for Palestine isn’t more caveated. Why are people waving flags and supporting Gaza so unconditionally? When you look at the polling described in the article it seems fairly clear that many/most don’t actually want peace unless it follows the complete destruction of Israel.

For me it’s a bit like supporting Iran. I would never wave the Iranian flag around because of what the country stands for. In this case I am horrified by the scale of destruction wrought by the IDF so support Palestine completely in that respect but I’d never wave the flag or chant the slogans.

If you consider yourself ‘pro-Palestine’, what do you think of the ideology described in the article?

I agree. That’s exactly why I said that countries do change names. I believe Israel is a sovereign state as of 1947/1948 and should be held accountable for any war crimes. I don’t think there should be such a thing a birthright to a country just because of history as this means displacing those who already lived there and bulldozing homes and creating more civil unrest. I don’t agree with illegal settlements.

@ImmediateReaction What were the derogatory comments people made about Israel or Jewish people? I’m assuming that they were deleted as I can’t see them?

@MushMonster That’s a really good point. Which makes me who the real targets are. You can see the mass levels of destruction from checking recent satellite footage to even wonder what the IDF were hoping to achieve. For the IDF to wait for their targets to go home and then wreak havoc shows that the priority were never the hostages or the innocent Palestinians. I remember reading not too long about the IDF killing Israeli hostages who were waving white flags. So it really doesn’t make sense what the IDF were hoping to achieve.

If they do not get deleted is because they do not break talk guidelines.
All out of order comments are removed.
Many people in mumsnet finds offensive comments made by others that do not align with the reading poster's views, but are not against guidelines. The conflict in the middle east board is a prolific one for this indeed. Just like in RL version!

I mean it’s not surprising Jewish people have moved around a lot, getting massacred, persecuted, forced to live as dhimmies and exiled from countries all around the world for centuries. That’s why there is a Jewish DIASPORA - which means a population that is dispersed from its original homeland or geographic place of origin.

This is interesting:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonentine/2013/05/16/israeli-researcher-challenges-jewish-dna-links-to-israel-calls-those-who-disagree-nazi-sympathizers/?

I wonder where that poster got 90% from? Does that include the 80% of Israeli Jewish people born in Israel since 1948? What about the 20% of Arab Israelis where do they fit in that 90%?

www.gov.il/en/pages/israel-at-75-a-statistical-glimpse-24-apr-2023

I do not think that their tactics stand any chance to find and retrieve hostages- see actual number recovered, really low.
The poor hostages who managed to escape were mistaken with Hamas militants, even with the white flags and hebrew speaking. It was really sad. Bless them.
I think the IDF soldiers were just terrified and shot anything that could come any close to them. If their had proper formed tactics, it would be less likely that they act trigger happy out of fear.

Absolutely. Even funnier given that the only people who have ever tried to make Israel Into an ethnostate are the Palestinian Arabs and the surrounding Muslim countries.

Can you expand on why you don’t think there is a need for an ‘ethnostate’ or rather a tiny majority Jewish state in amongst all the many majority Muslim states from which Jewish people were historically ethnically cleansed from?

Your original post referring to 'voices in her head' has been deleted. You could have privately messaged @SharonEllis an apology instead of repeating your insult here.

Thank you. I've steered clear of the DNA/scuence arguments as I'm not a scientist. For those who dont want to read the whole article, but perioducally imsist on this board tjat Jewdish people are primarily European, the concensus is, according to Marcus Feldman of Stanford University, a leading researcher in Jewish genetics. “If you take all of the careful genetic population analysis that has been done over the last 15 years… there’s no doubt about the common Middle Eastern origin" of the Jewish people INCLUDING Ashkenazi Jews.

From a historical perspective its clearly bonkers to suggest otherwise, I mean where else would Jewish people come from?

That hostages have been held by civilians in civilian homes must make forming ‘tactics’ especially difficult.

I must say I’ve never heard of a war where 1. Young babies and children are taken hostage, and 2. Civilians are held hostage by other civilians.

Have you?

I know they were kept inside houses, with the families of the kidnapper's, so with Hamas militants.
Then some amongst other civilians, as they were displaced.
I am really sad for these three poor men who managed to scape. Their subsequent deaths may have been avoided.
I think occupying fully Gaza, curfews, total movement control, listening to communications and systematic intensive searches of homes, schools, hospitals.. would have yielded a much better outcome. I think the IDF chose quite the worst possible way, which has not helped many hostages and costed life upon life.

There are some videos online about similar militar situations, some with advice and analysis from militar experts on how to handle. I think it was militar operations in Afghanistan, one of them. I will try to find them.

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/the-bottom-line/2023/11/11/should-israel-learn-from-us-mistakes-in-iraq-and-afghanistan
Here are some of the names of the men who fought and learnt hard lessons in Aghanistan. There are a few youtube channels with ex military predicting and analysing strategies, of course.
This, in addition to Biden and Blinken advice on the matter, which was always ignored.

@SleekBlackCat
How do you think the IDF should have faced this? Do you agree with what they have done so far?

Are you not aware of the 300km network of booby trapped tunnels in Gaza and that many civilian areas were booby trapped?

Also not aware that the ‘resistance’ only seem to distinguish themselves from civilians when they are parading Israeli hostages for release to give them goody bags so their supporters can see how kind they are? That they also have a well documented strategy of using civilians as human shields and civilian areas as bases.

How do you think your suggestion would have panned out exactly?

Do you have any experience of high density urban warfare experience in those circumstances?

So, you agree that what it was done is the right approach. So, why has not returned more than a few hostages?

Please, have a read and view the military experts advice. I have done and got my conclusions.
There is plenty of technology able to deal with booby traps.
Also, you never thought that Biden advice may have been of value?
That any of the guys saying there are other ways may have a point?

Nope. I am not qualified to say that what has happened was the right approach. Are you?

Israel knows how the Palestinians operate in terms of strategies and tactics better than anyone else. In the same way the Palestinians knew how Israel would respond.

I fully support Israel being held to account for war crimes if proven.

Do you think that invading communities and a festival of people who supported peace, slaughtering and raping over 1200 Israelis and international citizens, including babies and young children, injuring over 7000, as well as taking 251 hostages, including babies and young children, was the right approach from the Palestinians?

How could they have approached it differently?

I'd love to hear how Hamas could have approached the situation in a more productive way than invading Israel, murdering, burning alive, and raping innocents, and taking hostages.

Hmmm. I mean it might have been sort of OK if they’d just taken a few hundred civilian adult males hostage without the frenzied orgy of raping, murdering, pillaging, burning, mutilations and beheadings or at least not filmed it.

That would have kind of shown they wanted peace and had just taken bargaining chips to achieve their political goals of having Israel take down their border wall so they could all be friendly neighbours.

<sarcasm>

Kind of makes you wonder why they didn’t do the same in Egypt though to make them take down their much more highly fortified border wall or why they didn’t freedom fight for their own state when Gaza was governed by Egypt until 1967. Or even why Egypt didn’t take it back.

Why was that btw?

Of course Hamas actions are beyond horrible!
And so are your starements! It is disgusting!

I'd be more interested in an apology for dismissing and minimising the gross antisemitism and support for terrorists that I was posting about tbh.

I suppose that might have worked if their goal had ever been to have Israel take down their border wall so they could all be friendly neighbours!

The apology was just a way to reiterate the gaslighting, I doubt you'll get anywhere.

If it were sincere she could have done that, but then she wouldn't be able to reiterate the gaslighting and add the weird 'apology' to people who actually hear voices.