Do people fully support Palestine?

[Dawk]

I read this article and the scales fell from my eyes a bit: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/11/amid-the-ceasefire-wrangling-how-popular-is-hamas-in-gaza-now

I hadn’t realised that a majority of Gazans want a conservative Islamist state and the complete destruction of Israel to create an Islamic state covering the whole country (from the river to the sea I guess). They also support violence and even the sacrifice of their own lives.

I am appalled by the destruction and loss of life in Gaza, but having read this article I can’t understand why support for Palestine isn’t more caveated. Why are people waving flags and supporting Gaza so unconditionally? When you look at the polling described in the article it seems fairly clear that many/most don’t actually want peace unless it follows the complete destruction of Israel.

For me it’s a bit like supporting Iran. I would never wave the Iranian flag around because of what the country stands for. In this case I am horrified by the scale of destruction wrought by the IDF so support Palestine completely in that respect but I’d never wave the flag or chant the slogans.

If you consider yourself ‘pro-Palestine’, what do you think of the ideology described in the article?

Indeed crazy isn't it.

Being a terrorist seems to be some magical Get Out of Jail for Free card that absolves them of all responsibilities.

People forget that there are real men underneath those masks, commiting real crimes out of the own choice. I cannot fathom why these people shouldn't be held responsible for what they've bought upon Gaza.

I cannot fathom why these people shouldn't be held responsible for what they've bought upon Gaza

Nor me.

But I think the answer is a fanatical hatred of Israel that means Israeli Jews are so monstered that even barbaric terrorists cannot be held responsible for their own barbaric terrorism, as long as its against Jews.

You have a false narrative that the conflict is due to lack of food, shelter etc.
No I said that the path to peace starts with these things.

Well it works both ways. Palestine isn't safe with Israel as its neighbour. Only they aren't in a position to protect themselves.

This is bonkers. Truly unbelievable. How on earth could it be incumbent on Israel to show restraint in the face of people who want to destroy them? Do you know what happened on 7 October? I mean really understand what the victims went through? You could argue that Hamas has greater resources in that they have people prepared to carry out that degree of depraved behaviour.

That's because Hamas doesn't let the civilians protect themselves. Instead of spending $$$ in aid in building their tunnels and buying rockets and armaments they could have invested in defence systems.

Gaza had these things. It did not lead to peace. They were given resources to build peace and Hamas used them to launch war.

It was not a lack of these things that led to war. But despite the very clear evidence of this, you refuse to accept this.

I assume this is because acknowledging that there was no lack of food etc, would mean you have to make Hamas responsible for their own actions, rather than make Israel responsible for Hamas's actions.

I think the greatest risk to the Palestinian people is not Israel ( who would happily live peacefully beside them) but the Jihadist terrorists running their country. What if you're gay in Gaza? Non Muslim? What if you don't want to bring up your children to be "martyrs"?. You don't exactly have a lot of freedom. I hope the polls are wrong and Hamas do not actually have as much support as they seem to because the videos of the baying crowds there are terrifying.

Israel isn't responsible for Hamas's actions, Israel is responsible for their own actions

Yes, such as taking action to protect their citizens from a terrorist run region dedicated to racial genocide against them. Yes, Israel is responsible for defending its citizens.

And Hamas is responsible for forcing Israel into needing to defend their citizens by attacking Israeli citizens with calculatedly and planned brutality. And Hamas is responsible for the war which it deliberately started at a time of peace. That means Hamas is responsible for the death of its citizens by starting an unnecessary war..

@Bluewhitebox
Do you feel that the bombing of Palestinians in their homes blockading of food and medical supplies and subsequent horrors that we have seen in Gaza was the right course of action?

Are you in support of Netanyahu’s policies?
What is it you feel Israel can do to help find a peaceful path? (Not what can Hamas, or Palestinians do, what can Israel do?)

What do you think Israel should do to promote peace with its neighbors?

😆I daren’t say it again or Blue and Daisy will implode and explain to me again how little I understand in their opinion of war and the Middle East. I’m interested to hear what they think should be done rather than going round and round in circles.

The war started with 7th October attacks. What do you think Israel should have in response? Do you agree Israel had the right to respond?

I think prior to Oct 7th Israel had done a lot to achieve peace. I have already outlined all this very extensively on this thread. It didn't work as Hamas did not not want peace. This very important detail appears to be lost on you.

So the question actually is, what can be done to make Gazans want peace? I have no idea what will achieve that - do you? Its clearly not more food or healthcare as they have already had that and it didn't work.

I think fore warning Gazans that their homes were going to be bombed was the right course of action, yes. I think the low civilian to combatant death toll relative to other urban wars was commendable. These achievements were due to Israel's efforts, not Hamas'

Why, what do you think Hamas could have done to achieve a lower death toll of its own civilians?

And Israel is responsible for murdering thousands of innocent men, women and babies, they are responsible for their own actions, nobody else, how that was protecting their own citizens I'll never know, especially seeing as Hamas is still there?

One of the more tragic aspects of the carnage on Oct 7th was that so much of it was aided by Palestinians who had been employed in the kibbutzes that were attacked.

Israeli peaceniks were employing them in the name of peace, offering them employment sadly lacking in Gaza, and they used that information to guide the rampage. I don't suppose that's going to happen again for a long time.

What did Gazans do to improve relations with their Israeli neighbors?

Agreed. This is particularly heartbreaking and very rarely commented on.

You didn’t answer the questions though @Bluewhitebox ? Is it that you don’t think Israel should have killed tens of thousands of Palestinians in Gaza, don’t support the Israeli government and don’t know what Israel should do next or a combination of those things or the opposite?

No, deaths as a result of war are not murders. What Hamas did on October 7th was mass murder.

Civilians get killed in war, they particularly get killed in the type of urban warfare that Hamas deliberately provoked. Israel has done a good job of limiting the civilian casualities. It could not have prevented all of these. Hamas could have prevented all of them by not carrying out October 7th.

The logical conclusion of your position is that nation would ever defend itself against an attacker. Which is clearly absurd.

I repeat, none of these deaths would have happened if Hamas had not consciously provoked a war on October 7th. You are conveniently side stepping that.

People like the late Vivian Silver are threatening to Hamas, their aims and worldview. The last thing they want is Palestinians and Israelis being friends and working together. They were targeted because of that.

@Bluewhitebox who wrote
So the question actually is, what can be done to make Gazans want peace?

Israel withdrawing to its 1967 borders and the creation of a Palestinian state.
Marwan Barghouti, the most popular of all the Palestinian leaders, espouses this.
But that will require trust on the part of the Israelis, along with an end to its expansionist plans.
Unfortunately, too many Israelis have been emboldened by Israel's "victories" and Trump's support. So they are asking themselves, "Why stop now ? "
Netanyahu knows this and he also realises that the only way to survive politically is to carry Israeli popular opinion. So he will keep on going.

But he should go. He is the biggest obstacle to peace.

I did answer your question. I have answered the points you raise repeatedly in this thread. You can also see my answer just above, which may help you.

I do think Israel had a duty to defend its citizens. I think urban warfare carries a high civilian death toll and Israel has done an excellent job of keeping a low civilian to combatant ratio. I don't know how there can be peace in the middle east until Gazans want it. I do blame Hamas for all of the deaths as none of them would have happened if Hamas had not deliberately started the war on October 7th and Hamas could have ended the conflict by giving back the hostages and laying down arms at any point. That is my position.

You still have not answered the questions I have put to you:
What ' restrained way' could Israel have responded after October 7th to prevent further terrorist attacks?

What could Hamas have done to limit civilian casualities?
And, importantly, why do you think they did not do this?

What can Hamas and gazans do to bring peace?