American proposal to clear out Gaza

[Daftasabroom]

Trump is proposing to "clear out" Gaza.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2025/01/25/politics/trump-gaza-strip-jordan-egypt

So USA is actually proposing that the Gaza Strip should be cleared of Palestinians. 1.5 million people.

Muslims aren't 'offenders' (the 'O' in DARVO).

yes, in fact it's a projection. not only for O, for the whole acronym.

There is no systemic hatred against Muslims in this country.

There is anger at Islamist terrorists exploding bombs at concerts, murdering teachers and driving cars through Christmas markets.

Also at terrorist supporters of all nationalities and religions calling for the destruction of Israel and violent revolution in the UK.

Also at perpetrators of horrific crimes against children not being stopped because the police feared causing cultural tension - cultural tension with groups who have not assimilated and hold awful values.

That's the Victim Reversal. Those are the Offenders.

And to compare that to the antisemitism that led to the Holocaust is just sick.

That's incorrect, as there is widespread systemic and societal hatred of and discrimination against Muslims. Not Islamist terrorists, but Muslims.

Trump suggesting the Palestinians move out of Gaza whilst it was rebuilt would be similar to moving Jewish people of Eastern Europe into Ghettos....

... if the Jewish people in Germany in the '30s had lived in an area which had been bombed to destruction during a war between Germany and a Jewish terrorist militia. Where the Jewish militia had started the war by raping and murdering more than a thousand Germans, and fired rockets into Berlin, Munich and Frankfurt for decades.

... or if Palestinian Israelis were being rounded up from Tel Aviv and Haifa, rather than continuing to live and work peacefully alongside their Jewish compatriots.

... And if it actually happened, rather than it just being suggested as a way to rebuild and break the cycle of terrorism (I don't agree with the suggestion, but it's really not a move into ghettos being suggested)

...And then they were then all transported to camps and slaughtered.

As it is, it's anti-semitic holocaust inversion, and it's sick.

Even if were to accept the rhetoric that moving Gazans to other countries is a "humanitarian" action rather than ethnic cleansing, it's outrageous to expect other countries, and in particular Jordan, to take this on, particularly when Trump is so resistant to supporting refugees. Jordan is already home to nearly 800,000 refugees (some would say many more) with a population of only 11m. Its infrastructure already can't cope - healthcare is collapsing. Refugees are very restricted in access to work as there is already high unemployment among the host population, and unsurprisingly tensions are high. The money Syrian refugees receive from the UN has massively reduced, meaning they are living in extreme poverty. Much of Jordan is desert, and water is extremely scarce and becoming more so. They have also already taken a huge number of Palestinians in the past, most of whom now have Jordanian citizenship. Gazans can't just be "absorbed" into the population. No doubt what would happen (as has happened with Syrian refugees) is there would be initial financial support from the international community, which would then dwindle over time leaving the struggling Jordanians to once again pick up the pieces.

That is exactly what I thought of when I read this yesterday.

I went on a tour of the Jewish district when I was in Krakow. We were shown the homes and area that the Jewish people were forced to leave, and where they had to walk, all carrying their belongings with them, then moved into a different area of the city that was then walled in.

One of the things I learnt that that shocked me though was that the majority of the non-Jewish people in the area didn’t oppose this, they actually agreed with it as by that time: “The Jews were blamed for everything”. So much so, that when they came back after the war, they were attacked again in their homes.

I just couldn’t get my head around that, that ordinary people believed this, and saw a whole group of people as less than human and had been led to believe they were responsible for all sorts of things: even disease! As well as crime and economic problems.

And those people still believed this and were full of hate, after the truth of the concentration camps had come out (although of course, there were still prepared to minimise or disbelieve the truth of that).

The parallels with Gaza can’t be ignored, right down to some in Israel denying what the IDF did to Palestinians and dismissing it as propaganda!

and before anyone says “But October 7th!”, this had been going on long long before this. It’s horrible and it’s dangerous and is also what is happening with all the nastiness about “the boat people” in the UK, and the belief that these people are less than human (therefore of course, it doesn’t matter if they drown at sea or are treated horrifically while waiting and trying to claim asylum)

You are just finding ways to justify it. There are ordinary women and children in Gaza who have got fuck all to do with Hamas, and you are justifying everything that has happened to them - therefore you must believe that their lives are worth less than Israeli lives, and that is disgusting.

No. I'm saying to stop minimising the holocaust. That's disgusting.

I’m no Trump supporter and not in favour per se, but something’s got to give. What’s happened now is, essentially, Hamas have won and there is no way they will sit back quietly for any length of time. So, it’s really just kicked the can down the road rather than solved anything.

I have no affiliation with either Israel or Palestine, but as I said on another thread months ago, the situation is utterly ridiculous. The Gaza Strip is just like a divorce analogy.

Couple own a house together (analogy for Gaza Strip, West Bank) and don’t really like each other but begrudgingly rub along for years picking small fights. That escalates leading to a divorce. But both consider they own the house. They don’t want to share the house anymore and want the other out and no one will leave, to the point they end up being prepared to fight to the death over it really, and destroying the house in the process.

Each of them believes they are entitled to the house, not the other. Their friends all back them up as well, with friends telling each of them they are right. There is zero way they can coexist peacefully. Zero. The only way is if someone leaves. Otherwise it’s endless rounds of fighting after they stop and catch their breath.

That’s what this is. It’s never ever going to be solved with both existing there. I have no skin in the game, couldn’t care less who stays and goes but anything else will just be kicking the can down the road and more decades of periodic trouble.

Who is minimising the holocaust?

I would say one spouse (Palestinians) already owned the house before marriage as an inheritance from their ancestors but now the other spouse (Israel) is claiming that it used to belong to them and bullying the spouse to give up their ancestral right while ganging up with their strong bully (USA Republicans) friends.

This is such a grossly one sided view of history that it beggars belief.

Thankyou for saying this.

I'm never sure if some of the shit posted on here is in ignorance or hatred.

But the frequent Holocaust Inversion is truly shocking.

The message I got from visiting Auschwitz (and maybe this was the “wrong” one, who knows?) was: “This is what can happen when people are taught to hate each other, and it must never happen again”.

I thought that was the whole point of the museum , that the survivors and their families wanted it public so that people could see the truth of what happened and could witness the evil that can be created through hatred.

The spouses are cousins, and both inherited the house from their ancestors.

As outsiders, we think the obvious solution is to find a way to both live in the house.

But neither side wants to, and serious ongoing violence between them - in both directions - is making that harder and harder.

It's causing more and more injuries to both spouses/cousins, more and more entrenched bitterness, and also costing loads to keep repairing the house.

Friends of each spouse are taking sides - both because they think their friend is right, and also because the friends - of both spouses - like having parties there.

None of that is helping.

There is no replacement 'as you see it'. There is a huge increase in systemic hate of Jewish people in Europe especially as well as US campuses which is well reported.
Even Al Jazeera has reported on the huge rise in antisemitic acts against British Jews. Please don't peddle conspiracy theories here.

There is no replacement 'as you see it'. There is a huge increase in systemic hate of Jewish people in Europe especially as well as US campuses which is well reported.
Even Al Jazeera has reported on the huge rise in antisemitic acts against British Jews. Please don't peddle conspiracy theories here.

Seconded

But the frequent Holocaust Inversion is truly shocking.

I agree with you both on this too

Could you clarify exactly how the holocaust has been minimised?

Haven't rtft yet, so apologies if someone has already posted, but

https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-son-in-law-jared-kushner-secure-controversial-belgrade-real-estate-deal-serbia/

And this massive conflict-of-interest deal was brokered by Rick Grennell, a former Trump administration official using his official capacity to engage in grift (information below).

And then there's Kushner's $2B investment for the Saudis...

They are all weapons grade buffoons at everything except enriching and empowering themselves.

There is no bottom.

This situation is complicated by Richard Grenell, former Acting Director of National Intelligence and a pivotal figure in the Trump administration. Grenell’s transition from a government official to a private investor leveraging Balkan connections draws scrutiny, especially considering his controversial tenure and diplomatic methods. Grenell’s engagements in the Balkans, often at odds with European Union interests and U.S. foreign policy norms, raise red flags about his impartiality and the ethical dimensions of leveraging diplomatic relationships for private gains.
Grenell’s role in the Serbia-Kosovo dialogue, as well as his connections with figures like Vladimir Plahotniuc, a Moldovan oligarch linked to major financial scandals and Russian interests, paints a concerning picture. This relationship is particularly alarming, given the State Department’s imposition of sanctions on Plahotniuc for significant corruption. Grenell’s continued association with such a figure, even after official sanctions, raises serious questions about his judgment and commitment to diplomatic integrity.
Further compounding these concerns are allegations against Grenell, as reported in Serbian, German, and Albanian media outlets, including claims of receiving substantial sums for lobbying activities on behalf of Serbia. His engagement with Russian entities and far-right extremists during his tenure in Germany, resulting in a contentious expulsion, underscores a disregard for diplomatic norms and raises alarms about his suitability for roles impacting U.S. and European security interests.
These activities do not exist in a vacuum but rather in a complex geopolitical landscape where Russian influence and its proxies continue to challenge Western democratic values. Kushner’s and Grenell’s dealings in the Balkans, a region historically susceptible to external influences, must be critically assessed against this backdrop. The prospect of real estate developments potentially serving as conduits for foreign influence, especially when linked to individuals with a history of controversial alliances, is a cause for concern.

@OchaLove I would say one spouse (Palestinians) already owned the house before marriage as an inheritance from their ancestors but now the other spouse (Israel) is claiming that it used to belong to them and bullying the spouse to give up their ancestral right while ganging up with their strong bully (USA Republicans) friends

Okay. So irrespective of whatever, BOTH spouses believe they own the house. Nothing will ever change that. Both spouses have friends supporting them. The ultimate fix is one spouse moving out. Nothing else will work at this point. If they both stay, nothing will change and they will fight forever, with each spouses friends supporting them. That’s the reality.