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Conflict in the Middle East
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OpheliaWasntMad · 10/02/2025 13:04

Lalaloveya · 10/02/2025 12:55

So nobody is justifying it. Just explaining why some communities supported the IRA.

If you don't have equal rights, have no political representation, can't get a job because of your religion, or a social house, or vote and you can't even go to the police when you're the victim of a crime you might find yourself sympathising with the local paramilitary group who appear to offer solutions to some of those issues.

Remember that in these areas the IRA are people's neighbours, nephews, fathers etc. Not some big strange far away bogeyman.

And while some people left to avoid all this, most stayed and Sinn Féin is the biggest political party in the North now in terms of seats.

Edited to add that obviously poverty was rampant in many nationalist communities and so poverty and lack of options are also important reasons that people stayed.

Edited
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“In these areas the IRA are people's neighbours, nephews, fathers etc. Not some big strange far away bogeyman.”
Thats the scary bit - the Bullies with guns are your next door neighbours. As Jean McConville’s children know . 💔

Lalaloveya · 10/02/2025 13:15

Yes and it explains why people have sympathy for the cause, help them out, turn a blind eye etc.

OpheliaWasntMad · 10/02/2025 13:17

The justification for terrorism is disgusting. The way those Hamas militants pose with their faces covered reminds me of coming out of Mass and seeing balaclava covered IRA men collecting money “for their newspaper (an Poblacht) . There wasn’t too much choice about whether you gave money or not …

OpheliaWasntMad · 10/02/2025 13:19

Both groups terrorise their own communities. It’s important not to gloss over that fact.

OpheliaWasntMad · 10/02/2025 13:20

Lalaloveya · 10/02/2025 13:15

Yes and it explains why people have sympathy for the cause, help them out, turn a blind eye etc.

People were generally afraid to speak out …

Lalaloveya · 10/02/2025 13:21

OpheliaWasntMad · 10/02/2025 13:17

The justification for terrorism is disgusting. The way those Hamas militants pose with their faces covered reminds me of coming out of Mass and seeing balaclava covered IRA men collecting money “for their newspaper (an Poblacht) . There wasn’t too much choice about whether you gave money or not …

How strange. I've never seen an IRA person selling an Phoblacht. Certainly not when wearing balaclavas 😂 I wonder why they weren't arrested on the spot. Sounds insane.

OpheliaWasntMad · 10/02/2025 13:23

Lalaloveya · 10/02/2025 13:21

How strange. I've never seen an IRA person selling an Phoblacht. Certainly not when wearing balaclavas 😂 I wonder why they weren't arrested on the spot. Sounds insane.

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They used to sell them in London pubs too ..

Lalaloveya · 10/02/2025 13:23

OpheliaWasntMad · 10/02/2025 13:20

People were generally afraid to speak out …

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OK I'm going to stop after this because obviously you're not understanding my point.

Some people hated them and were afraid of them, sure. Other people supported them for the reasons I've mentioned in several previous posts.

Lalaloveya · 10/02/2025 13:23

OpheliaWasntMad · 10/02/2025 13:23

They used to sell them in London pubs too ..

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Wearing balaclavas? How bonkers.

OpheliaWasntMad · 10/02/2025 13:26

Lalaloveya · 10/02/2025 13:23

OK I'm going to stop after this because obviously you're not understanding my point.

Some people hated them and were afraid of them, sure. Other people supported them for the reasons I've mentioned in several previous posts.

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I’m making parallels with Gaza.
I feel sorry for the Gazans because they are also terrorised by Hamas but cannot speak out.
(Of course not all are terrorised because some support Hamas )

Lalaloveya · 10/02/2025 13:33

OpheliaWasntMad · 10/02/2025 13:26

I’m making parallels with Gaza.
I feel sorry for the Gazans because they are also terrorised by Hamas but cannot speak out.
(Of course not all are terrorised because some support Hamas )

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Sure. I'd hazard a guess that most have no choice if they want to get by. Stuck between two groups who inflict terror and no way out. It's beyond belief.

MangoAndMelon · 10/02/2025 15:24

EasterIssland · 10/02/2025 03:27

U.S. President Donald Trump said on Sunday he is committed to buying and owning Gaza, but could allow sections of the war-ravaged land to be rebuilt by other states in the Middle East.

https://www.reuters.com/world/trump-meet-with-leaders-saudi-arabia-egypt-israeli-president-says-2025-02-09/

He cannot?
The courts could claim he is affiliated with Izraeli gov and doing it for them (USA president, USA funding and/or helping them to getting rid of Gaza) and that's against the law afaik

EasterIssland · 10/02/2025 15:35

MangoAndMelon · 10/02/2025 15:24

He cannot?
The courts could claim he is affiliated with Izraeli gov and doing it for them (USA president, USA funding and/or helping them to getting rid of Gaza) and that's against the law afaik

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Don’t think he cares much about law. He’s a convicted who received a war criminal the other day

MangoAndMelon · 10/02/2025 15:40

EasterIssland · 10/02/2025 15:35

Don’t think he cares much about law. He’s a convicted who received a war criminal the other day

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It's against the law for the Palestines so they probably care.
Unless the law changed

Lalaloveya · 10/02/2025 15:54

MangoAndMelon · 10/02/2025 15:40

It's against the law for the Palestines so they probably care.
Unless the law changed

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They've been committing war crimes for 15 months against the Palestinians, and continue to commit atrocities in the West Bank (and maybe in Gaza, who knows what happens there because there's no international media) and nothing was done to stop it so I wouldn't hold my breath, sadly.

MangoAndMelon · 10/02/2025 16:48

I think I am being misunderstood. It's not that Israel or USA will care. Palestinians who sell land to Izrael or associates lf Izrael would be tried by Palestinian court. There wete cases like that.
Hence why I said the Palestinians would probably care.... Because they could be tried by their own. Unless that only applies to West Bank and Hamas never implemented it, or the law changed. Happy for someone to clarify

Moulook31 · 10/02/2025 17:10

Yassnass145 · 26/01/2025 15:42

America and Israel started this war to remove Palestinians from Gaza. It is their end game. To extract the oil there and take the land.

Definitely the longterm plan for the US and Israel.

mollyfolk · 10/02/2025 17:50

I really don’t think that the US had this planned all along. This has taken everyone, even the Israelis by surprise.

I think the Israeli government aimed to destroy Gaza so the Palestinians would have to move or be moved. But I don’t think they thought Trump would hand it to them on a plate. Netanyahu said himself during the briefing - Trump is bringing it to the next level.

MangoAndMelon · 10/02/2025 17:51

Maybe it's all a ruse to show how greedy hamas is and see if they accept....

Lalaloveya · 10/02/2025 18:02

I'm pretty sure it's just good old fashioned land grabbing and ethnic cleansing.

Kindatired · 10/02/2025 20:17

I don’t think it’s straightforward land grabbing.
I think it relates to the work of the early neocons in the 1990s/early 2000s bearing fruit at a distance in time. Key figures in the Bush administration advocated for the US to be a global hegemony. Other neocons who were associated with them worked with Netanyahu in drawing up the “Clean break” report-Israel would dominate and destabilise the surrounding Arab states that represented a threat, work towards regime change in Iraq and and would become more self reliant in its relationship with the US.

Now the neocons are back. The right is rising everywhere, not just the US .
i think Trump wants to throw NATO under the bus. I think he would like to have control of overseas territories that have key shipping routes- Greenland, Panama Canal and either the Suez or a new Ben Gurian canal, but ortwise take an isolationist approach. He would get Israel to do any dirty work for him- no US boots on the ground, Israel would do the ethnic cleansing and be the regional power- it’s crossed so many red lines it can literally get away with mass murder without a regime change, there’s an appetite for revenge and Palestinians have been systematically dehumanised in Israeli public consciousness.israel has or will have nuclear capabilities soon.
I’m not saying that he’ll achieve it, I’m just saying that it’s not about golf courses and beachside hotels. And if you disregard the ethics and the feasibility issues, it makes the idea of buying Gaza less crazy

BelleHathor · 10/02/2025 21:14

It's an open secret that Israel does have nuclear weapons, how many is not known as they're not a signatory to the The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) as "officially" they do not possess any.

It was confirmed in the 1980s by Israeli whistle-blower Mordechai Vanunu who gave an interview to the Times regarding the facility at Dimona, Israel.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/defence-and-security-blog/2016/may/11/nuclear-whistleblower-faces-fresh-charges-30-years-on

Nuclear whistleblower faces fresh charges, 30 years on

Mordechai Vanunu accused of breaching strict controls on movementFormer technician blew whistle on Israel’s nuclear weapons programme

https://www.theguardian.com/news/defence-and-security-blog/2016/may/11/nuclear-whistleblower-faces-fresh-charges-30-years-on

mouthpipette · 10/02/2025 22:10

@BelleHathor
It's an open secret that Israel does have nuclear weapons, how many is not known

Last I heard a few weeks ago... it's reckoned to be between 80 and 400 warheads. There's a wide spread in values due to the secrecy surrounding their nuclear program.

25milesfromhome · 10/02/2025 23:18

More concerned about Russia's 6,000 and the US' 5,550 nuclear warheads tbh, hundreds of which are already deployed.

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