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Conflict in the Middle East
EasterIssland · 19/12/2024 14:23

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How do you rearm your enemy by providing minimum water to the civilians. Unless you’re equating hostages + civilians = hamas.

name one country who is controlling what food / water / aid enters in another country and refuses the access to aid.

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Whatsinanamehey · 19/12/2024 14:24

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Did you even read the article?

Human Rights Watch also analyzed satellite imagery and verified photographs and videos captured between the beginning of the hostilities and August 2024. These show extensive damage and destruction to water and sanitation infrastructure, including the apparently deliberate, systematic razing of the solar panels powering four of Gaza’s six wastewater treatment plants by Israeli ground forces, as well as Israeli soldiers filming themselves demolishing a key water reservoir.[8]

Whatsinanamehey · 19/12/2024 14:26

The lovely moral IDF soldiers FILMED themselves destroying a water reservoir. But some people on here (some who are probably mothers) don't seem to give a shit that Palestinian children are dying preventable deaths because Israel is deliberately damaging their water supplies.

Lalaloveya · 19/12/2024 14:27

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They're just expected not to deprive millions of civilians of water. It's basic enough. Anyone with a shred of humanity who recognises that Gazans are human beings with human rights can see that.

Also, they're the occupying power which gives them disproportionate power over Gazans. And Gazans aren't the enemy. They're people like you and me.

EasterIssland · 19/12/2024 14:28

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Are Palestinians the enemy?

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Dulra · 19/12/2024 14:29

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Innocent civilians are the enemy?

Whatsinanamehey · 19/12/2024 14:30

EasterIssland · 19/12/2024 14:28

Are Palestinians the enemy?

According to many in power in Israel they are. This poster is just saying the quiet part out loud.

DayAfter · 19/12/2024 14:31

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MissyB1 · 19/12/2024 14:37

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Lalaloveya · 19/12/2024 14:39

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"Hamas represents Gaza and Gaza is Hamas."

Shocking stuff. Excusing war crimes.

Hamas isn't the army. Gaza doesn't have an army. It's a fairly central issue in this conflict.

Scirocco · 19/12/2024 15:20

At least people are saying the quiet bit out loud now, so there's no doubt about what people really think.

Gone are the pretences around claims of only targeting Hamas, or wanting to protect innocent people. This is about killing Palestinians for the crime of being Palestinian, whether by bombing them or cutting off their water. It was said by officials over a year ago and it's still being done and openly supported today.

SharonEllis · 19/12/2024 18:03

Lalaloveya · 19/12/2024 14:39

"Hamas represents Gaza and Gaza is Hamas."

Shocking stuff. Excusing war crimes.

Hamas isn't the army. Gaza doesn't have an army. It's a fairly central issue in this conflict.

What do you mean Hamas isn't the army? Hamas has an armed wing. Hamas 'combatants' have been attacking Israel before, on and after 7 October. If it wasn't an 'army' that was attacking Israel then it was just Palestinian civilians attacking Israel. Which is it? I agree its central to this conflict.

Scirocco · 19/12/2024 18:19

SharonEllis · 19/12/2024 18:03

What do you mean Hamas isn't the army? Hamas has an armed wing. Hamas 'combatants' have been attacking Israel before, on and after 7 October. If it wasn't an 'army' that was attacking Israel then it was just Palestinian civilians attacking Israel. Which is it? I agree its central to this conflict.

Hamas has an armed wing, but that isn't the national army. Palestine doesn't have an army or any other military in that sense. Having an armed wing doesn't make that armed wing the official military of a country (eg Hezbollah's armed wing was not the actual Lebanese army).

SharonEllis · 19/12/2024 18:25

Scirocco · 19/12/2024 18:19

Hamas has an armed wing, but that isn't the national army. Palestine doesn't have an army or any other military in that sense. Having an armed wing doesn't make that armed wing the official military of a country (eg Hezbollah's armed wing was not the actual Lebanese army).

Isn't that splitting hairs? Hamas is the government Hamas has fighters, fighting. What difference does it make?

Scirocco · 19/12/2024 18:42

SharonEllis · 19/12/2024 18:25

Isn't that splitting hairs? Hamas is the government Hamas has fighters, fighting. What difference does it make?

One of the big arguments people used to defend the actions of the Israeli government and military, including justifications given by the Israeli government and military, was that they weren't attacking or targeting Palestinian citizens but were instead fighting against the terrorist group which also oppressed Palestinians - drawing a distinction between Palestinians and Hamas, arguing that they were only targeting a terrorist group. That's different from saying they're fighting a country's army. The conflict was presented as Israel vs Hamas, not Israel vs the Palestinian army (which doesn't exist).

The terms used to define the nature of a conflict do matter, so it is relevant that Hamas's armed wing is a paramilitary organisation with loyalty to Hamas rather than to the state. A national army has its responsibilities primarily to its sovereign state and citizens. The Hamas armed wing answers solely to Hamas (and people telling Hamas what to do).

Lalaloveya · 19/12/2024 18:44

SharonEllis · 19/12/2024 18:25

Isn't that splitting hairs? Hamas is the government Hamas has fighters, fighting. What difference does it make?

No it's not splitting hairs. I can't believe you can't tell the difference between a terrorist militant group and a state army. Remarkable.

Lalaloveya · 19/12/2024 18:46

I saw this image on social media today which I thought was relevant to this thread.

Israel accused committing genocide for preventing the access to water
SharonEllis · 19/12/2024 18:47

Scirocco · 19/12/2024 18:42

One of the big arguments people used to defend the actions of the Israeli government and military, including justifications given by the Israeli government and military, was that they weren't attacking or targeting Palestinian citizens but were instead fighting against the terrorist group which also oppressed Palestinians - drawing a distinction between Palestinians and Hamas, arguing that they were only targeting a terrorist group. That's different from saying they're fighting a country's army. The conflict was presented as Israel vs Hamas, not Israel vs the Palestinian army (which doesn't exist).

The terms used to define the nature of a conflict do matter, so it is relevant that Hamas's armed wing is a paramilitary organisation with loyalty to Hamas rather than to the state. A national army has its responsibilities primarily to its sovereign state and citizens. The Hamas armed wing answers solely to Hamas (and people telling Hamas what to do).

Not sure I understand. If you're saying there is no palestinian army then you are agreeing with the Israeli army that they are fighting Hamas. The Hamas armed wing is answerable to Hamas as both the political wing of Hamas and the government of gaza. In practice what difference does it make? Hamas fighters are legitimate military targets.

SharonEllis · 19/12/2024 18:48

Lalaloveya · 19/12/2024 18:44

No it's not splitting hairs. I can't believe you can't tell the difference between a terrorist militant group and a state army. Remarkable.

Of course I can tell the difference. Please explain what difference it makes.

SharonEllis · 19/12/2024 18:49

Scirocco · 19/12/2024 18:19

Hamas has an armed wing, but that isn't the national army. Palestine doesn't have an army or any other military in that sense. Having an armed wing doesn't make that armed wing the official military of a country (eg Hezbollah's armed wing was not the actual Lebanese army).

Hezbollah isn't the government of Lebanon. Hamas is the government of gaza.

Lalaloveya · 19/12/2024 18:51

SharonEllis · 19/12/2024 18:48

Of course I can tell the difference. Please explain what difference it makes.

I was responding to a statement in a now deleted post that said Gaza is Hamas. Gaza is not Hamas and Hamas is not an army for Gaza in the way the IDF is in Israel. You can see the posts on this page.

MissyB1 · 19/12/2024 18:52

So I see that MNHQ deleted my post because I pointed out that saying Palestinian equals Hamas is racist, anyone who does that needs to realise that. Assuming a person is a terrorist simply because of their ethnicity is clearly a racist attitude. I don't regret it and will continue to call out this particular form of racism whenever I see it.

SharonEllis · 19/12/2024 18:57

Lalaloveya · 19/12/2024 18:51

I was responding to a statement in a now deleted post that said Gaza is Hamas. Gaza is not Hamas and Hamas is not an army for Gaza in the way the IDF is in Israel. You can see the posts on this page.

I don't think that follows. The IDF is not Israel either. The British army is not Britain. The armed wing of Hamas IS thr army of the gaza government. What is the practical result of the distinction you're making? Hamas is still a legitimate military target.

BadgerInDungarees · 19/12/2024 19:12

Lalaloveya · 19/12/2024 18:46

I saw this image on social media today which I thought was relevant to this thread.

To keep the thread on track, I think shows just how awful Israels targeted attack on the water of Gaza is. There is no way Israel doesn't know the consequences to civilians of destroying their water supply.

Lalaloveya · 19/12/2024 19:14

SharonEllis · 19/12/2024 18:57

I don't think that follows. The IDF is not Israel either. The British army is not Britain. The armed wing of Hamas IS thr army of the gaza government. What is the practical result of the distinction you're making? Hamas is still a legitimate military target.

Yeah I didn't say it was so not sure what point you're trying to make.

It's no big deal if you didn't understand my post. I wasn't talking to you and the post I was responding to has been deleted. I wouldn't get worked up about it if I were you.