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Conflict in the Middle East
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57
LoremIpsumCici · 16/11/2024 21:50

KnittingKnewbie · 13/11/2024 20:43

As a teacher, when this particular chapter/topic comes up I remind the children that Jesus himself was Jewish, he was the first Christian (Jesus Christ). It's not being anti - Semitic to state that some people disliked Jesus. Those people were in fact Jewish. Everyone in the area at the time was Jewish.

Wellllll not everyone, there were many other ancient religions in the area at the time.

ScrollingLeaves · 16/11/2024 23:29

Instead of third hand accounts here is The trial of Jesus as told in the Four Gospels.

https://www.famous-trials.com/jesustrial/1040-kingjamesversion

ScrollingLeaves · 16/11/2024 23:57

I was wondering what clothes the children’s book illustration should have shown the priests wearing.

This looks very different if it is correct, and far more gorgeous.
www.pinterest.com/pin/robe-jewish-high-priest-in-the-days-of-the-temple--633387431097601/

EllaDisenchanted · 17/11/2024 07:21

ScrollingLeaves · 16/11/2024 23:57

I was wondering what clothes the children’s book illustration should have shown the priests wearing.

This looks very different if it is correct, and far more gorgeous.
www.pinterest.com/pin/robe-jewish-high-priest-in-the-days-of-the-temple--633387431097601/

This is a much more accurate depiction of what the כהן גדול (High Priest/ Kohen Gadol) wore year round - the robe would be sky blue, there were golden bells and purple blue and red pomegranates on the hem, and the jewelled breastplate had 12 stones representing the 12 tribes. The other priests (Kohanim) wore different garments, but not like the picture in the children’s book illustration.

EllaDisenchanted · 17/11/2024 07:23

Dulra · 13/11/2024 17:52

The chapter on Judaism is 20 pages long so I've attached a few key bits

Thanks Dulra- really interesting and what I could read was a pretty accurate representation of Judaism.

ScrollingLeaves · 17/11/2024 11:43

Limesodaagain · 16/11/2024 11:46

Yes - that verse has been used with malicious intent and in anti semitic ways . The line is said by “the people in the crowd “ a specific section of Jerusalem society . The people in that crowd did not represent everyone in Jerusalem. There were many other Jews in the New Testament who do not say these lines. . Jesus ,Our Lady, all the apostles , Mary Magdalene, Joseph of Arimathea Lazarus , Martha, etc etc . The whole cast … ( apart from Pilate) .
Obviously there are good people and malicious people in every race and religion.

Yes, the Gospels are clear it was the High Priests and people in the crowd with them who condemned Jesus to death, because the priests were jealous that so very many (Jews) loved and followed Jesus. Pontus Pilate even asked Jesus, “Are you the King of the Jews”? The priests thought Jesus was subversive.

Limesodaagain · 17/11/2024 12:12

In any case - the idea of blaming a whole group of people for something their ancestors did two thousand years ago is clear absurd.
How many of us can be certain we haven’t got ancestors who did horrible things over the last two thousand years …

Limesodaagain · 17/11/2024 12:16

I think Jewish people should be reassured that the only “Christians “ who think like this are really the far right extremists types who twist the Bible for their own malicious purposes.
Rather like the extremists islamists do

HelenHen · 20/11/2024 14:43

Limesodaagain · 16/11/2024 12:13

Can you understand why Jewish people might feel vulnerable?
You might not be aware but there has been a rise in anti semitic attacks.
The Jewish people in Europe should not be feeling vulnerable because of what is happening in the Gaza.

Do you think exaggerated articles in the JC might also be to blame for this?

Irish people are rightly concerned about the genocide in gaza. This does not make them responsible for anybody feeling vulnerable in Ireland. They are 2 separate issues and should be dealt with separately.

Antisemitism should be shut down when it's seen or heard. However, vague and uncorroborated stories of antisemitism being used as a means of striking fear and hatred into Irish Jews and encouraging them to feel fearful should also be shut down. Are there actually any facts to support this article, which caused the OP to believe Antisemitism is being broadly taught and accepted in Irish schools?

Limesodaagain · 20/11/2024 14:57

HelenHen · 20/11/2024 14:43

Do you think exaggerated articles in the JC might also be to blame for this?

Irish people are rightly concerned about the genocide in gaza. This does not make them responsible for anybody feeling vulnerable in Ireland. They are 2 separate issues and should be dealt with separately.

Antisemitism should be shut down when it's seen or heard. However, vague and uncorroborated stories of antisemitism being used as a means of striking fear and hatred into Irish Jews and encouraging them to feel fearful should also be shut down. Are there actually any facts to support this article, which caused the OP to believe Antisemitism is being broadly taught and accepted in Irish schools?

“Do you think exaggerated articles in the JC might also be to blame for this?”
No I don’t think the fears of the Jewish community are caused by false/ misleading reporting in the JC.
I think there are good reasons for the concern of the Jewish community in Ireland and elsewhere. My point was that those underlying concerns should not be swept aside or dismissed just because this report is inaccurate.

HelenHen · 20/11/2024 15:04

Limesodaagain · 20/11/2024 14:57

“Do you think exaggerated articles in the JC might also be to blame for this?”
No I don’t think the fears of the Jewish community are caused by false/ misleading reporting in the JC.
I think there are good reasons for the concern of the Jewish community in Ireland and elsewhere. My point was that those underlying concerns should not be swept aside or dismissed just because this report is inaccurate.

I agree. But this thread, and the original article are not at all helpful.

Countless people dead and we're being accused because somebody somewhere gave a character in an illustration the wrong hat... bearing in mind the ridiculous stereotypes and tropes that Irish people are used to being depicted as.

This just comes across as desperately trying to fund fault with Ireland and to take the discussion away from the actions of Israel. In that case it was a success.

JaneJeffer · 20/11/2024 15:07

Well said @HelenHen

Limesodaagain · 20/11/2024 15:14

HelenHen · 20/11/2024 15:04

I agree. But this thread, and the original article are not at all helpful.

Countless people dead and we're being accused because somebody somewhere gave a character in an illustration the wrong hat... bearing in mind the ridiculous stereotypes and tropes that Irish people are used to being depicted as.

This just comes across as desperately trying to fund fault with Ireland and to take the discussion away from the actions of Israel. In that case it was a success.

Well - maybe… but it gives other posters a chance to clear up misconceptions so maybe not a bad thing?
Also - I don’t agree that it takes the attention away from the actions of Israel. There are still plenty of threads to discuss those actions. No one is stopping those discussions from taking place.
re “finding fault with Ireland “ - there is a lot of defensiveness on here at times . No country is perfect ( even Ireland) and it’s ok for posters to question things that Ireland does ( in the same way posters do with every other country) . If the misconception is addressed then no harm is done ..

HelenHen · 20/11/2024 17:19

Limesodaagain · 20/11/2024 15:14

Well - maybe… but it gives other posters a chance to clear up misconceptions so maybe not a bad thing?
Also - I don’t agree that it takes the attention away from the actions of Israel. There are still plenty of threads to discuss those actions. No one is stopping those discussions from taking place.
re “finding fault with Ireland “ - there is a lot of defensiveness on here at times . No country is perfect ( even Ireland) and it’s ok for posters to question things that Ireland does ( in the same way posters do with every other country) . If the misconception is addressed then no harm is done ..

But does the thread belong in CITME? Ireland is neither in the middle east nor involved in a conflict there.

Perhaps the thread should be asking why is JC investigating the Irish education curriculum and getting all accusatory about it? It's hard not to be defensive when it is very clear what is happening here. Are they investigating other countries too? I find it hard to believe that the Irish curriculum would be so antisemitic that it deserves its own article,and a lengthy one too. Knowing how 'woke' Ireland is (and yes I hate that term... but it's one that gets thrown at Ireland a lot)

HelenHen · 20/11/2024 17:22

And also, I'm so fed up of Ireland having to be the nice guy here and actually dealing with and responding to such ridiculous accusations... when we have been treated as a laughing stock throughout history.

I don't think it deserves any response or respect tbh.

HelenHen · 20/11/2024 17:24

Does anybody know what Israeli children are taught about Ireland? I'd love to see some images from their schoolbooks about Irish religion or history.

Limesodaagain · 20/11/2024 17:57

HelenHen · 20/11/2024 17:19

But does the thread belong in CITME? Ireland is neither in the middle east nor involved in a conflict there.

Perhaps the thread should be asking why is JC investigating the Irish education curriculum and getting all accusatory about it? It's hard not to be defensive when it is very clear what is happening here. Are they investigating other countries too? I find it hard to believe that the Irish curriculum would be so antisemitic that it deserves its own article,and a lengthy one too. Knowing how 'woke' Ireland is (and yes I hate that term... but it's one that gets thrown at Ireland a lot)

I’m guessing the thread is on here because there has been a rise in anti semitism because of the Middle East conflict ?

JaneJeffer · 20/11/2024 18:03

I have my own guess why this thread is on here

Limesodaagain · 20/11/2024 18:04

HelenHen · 20/11/2024 17:22

And also, I'm so fed up of Ireland having to be the nice guy here and actually dealing with and responding to such ridiculous accusations... when we have been treated as a laughing stock throughout history.

I don't think it deserves any response or respect tbh.

“When we have been treated as a laughing stock throughout history.” !
The history of the Irish is one thing but Ireland is now an affluent nation and its citizens are not in fear .
The Jews have faced a great deal of persecution throughout history and they are currently feeling vulnerable because of increased tensions so I think it is unhelpful to say that their concerns about anti semitism don’t deserve” respect or response”.

JaneJeffer · 20/11/2024 18:08

Does the person who wrote the article live in Ireland?

Limesodaagain · 20/11/2024 18:13

JaneJeffer · 20/11/2024 18:08

Does the person who wrote the article live in Ireland?

Is that relevant? Do journalists always live in the country they’re reporting on?

JaneJeffer · 20/11/2024 18:14

Am I not allowed to ask a simple question?

HelenHen · 20/11/2024 18:15

Limesodaagain · 20/11/2024 18:04

“When we have been treated as a laughing stock throughout history.” !
The history of the Irish is one thing but Ireland is now an affluent nation and its citizens are not in fear .
The Jews have faced a great deal of persecution throughout history and they are currently feeling vulnerable because of increased tensions so I think it is unhelpful to say that their concerns about anti semitism don’t deserve” respect or response”.

Genuine accounts of antisemitism absolutely deserve action, but sweeping baseless accusations should not be taking the time of Irish politicians... nor should Irish people be made to feel guilty or apologise.

Marblesbackagain · 20/11/2024 18:17

Limesodaagain · 20/11/2024 18:13

Is that relevant? Do journalists always live in the country they’re reporting on?

Given the time and inaccuracies it is fair to question exactly what was the purpose of it?

HelenHen · 20/11/2024 18:17

Limesodaagain · 20/11/2024 18:04

“When we have been treated as a laughing stock throughout history.” !
The history of the Irish is one thing but Ireland is now an affluent nation and its citizens are not in fear .
The Jews have faced a great deal of persecution throughout history and they are currently feeling vulnerable because of increased tensions so I think it is unhelpful to say that their concerns about anti semitism don’t deserve” respect or response”.

Also affluence has nothing to do with it. Is Israel a poor country?

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