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Conflict in the Middle East
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57
OpheliaWasntMad · 21/12/2024 10:41

Martymcfly24 · 21/12/2024 10:26

No.
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2023/1017/1389911-just-what-can-the-president-of-ireland-actually-say-and-do/

Once he does not come in conflict with the government he can have opinions..

And the government are completely on the same page as him.

Thanks - that’s helpful.
I wasn’t clear if his role was ceremonial/ diplomatic ( like monarchy) but the bit about representing “widely held values “ without being party political explains it.

Obviously his remarks about Israel and Egypt overstepped the line . I hope he will apologise and clarify.

andIsaid · 21/12/2024 15:17

OpheliaWasntMad · 21/12/2024 10:41

Thanks - that’s helpful.
I wasn’t clear if his role was ceremonial/ diplomatic ( like monarchy) but the bit about representing “widely held values “ without being party political explains it.

Obviously his remarks about Israel and Egypt overstepped the line . I hope he will apologise and clarify.

Obviously his remarks about Israel and Egypt overstepped the line . I hope he will apologise and clarify.

I don't.

Israel is always bitching about being held to a different standard to all other countries.

They are correct. It needs to come in line with the rest of us.

An Irish government calling out a savage, terror campaign against civilians through the targeting of women, children, hospitals and schools is in line with most of the populations of Europe, the United States and Israel.

The current Israeli government needs to step aside in the name of humanity.

OpheliaWasntMad · 21/12/2024 15:46

andIsaid · 21/12/2024 15:17

Obviously his remarks about Israel and Egypt overstepped the line . I hope he will apologise and clarify.

I don't.

Israel is always bitching about being held to a different standard to all other countries.

They are correct. It needs to come in line with the rest of us.

An Irish government calling out a savage, terror campaign against civilians through the targeting of women, children, hospitals and schools is in line with most of the populations of Europe, the United States and Israel.

The current Israeli government needs to step aside in the name of humanity.

We’re not currently talking about “a savage, terror campaign against civilians”
The discussion was about comments made by Michael D Higgins about Israel and Egypt.

If those comments are not true then it undermines his other points because he becomes less trustworthy as a commentator. Sticking to facts and truth is important if he wants to maintain the integrity of Ireland’s position.

So of course he should clarify and apologise if he has “misspoken”

Toomanywars · 21/12/2024 16:11

Dulra · 21/12/2024 09:40

Let's get the facts straight. I think we've been over this many times. Israel actions have gone well beyond defence and their prime minister is charged with crimes against humanity and they are under investigation for genocide.

What I printed here was a direct quotation from the article

Toomanywars · 21/12/2024 17:57

OpheliaWasntMad · 21/12/2024 10:41

Thanks - that’s helpful.
I wasn’t clear if his role was ceremonial/ diplomatic ( like monarchy) but the bit about representing “widely held values “ without being party political explains it.

Obviously his remarks about Israel and Egypt overstepped the line . I hope he will apologise and clarify.

Some deny he said it. Its on quite a few outlets now though. Strange comments, almost as if he hates Israel so spews forth untruths. Sounds familiar 🤔

Martymcfly24 · 21/12/2024 19:04

Toomanywars · 21/12/2024 17:57

Some deny he said it. Its on quite a few outlets now though. Strange comments, almost as if he hates Israel so spews forth untruths. Sounds familiar 🤔

Familiar to what?

Kindatired · 21/12/2024 19:33

The so called “Philadelphia corridor “is de facto a plan to settle a strip of land that Israel has absolutely no right to occupy. There is no border with Israel.
Michael D is absolutely right. Israel should get out of Gaza and get out of this strip of land that doesn’t belong to it. Another land grab in the guise of a security buffer.
The speech is on YouTube and the quote is out of context.
But they are really scraping the barrel, just like going back 3 generations of his wife’s family to discredit Canon Oxley.

OpheliaWasntMad · 21/12/2024 20:02

Kindatired · 21/12/2024 19:33

The so called “Philadelphia corridor “is de facto a plan to settle a strip of land that Israel has absolutely no right to occupy. There is no border with Israel.
Michael D is absolutely right. Israel should get out of Gaza and get out of this strip of land that doesn’t belong to it. Another land grab in the guise of a security buffer.
The speech is on YouTube and the quote is out of context.
But they are really scraping the barrel, just like going back 3 generations of his wife’s family to discredit Canon Oxley.

But how come Michael D knows what the Israeli government plans to do (with relation to settlements) in Egypt ? Surely his comments with regard to Egypt and”another land grab” are conjecture so why do you say he is “ absolutely right” ?

Kindatired · 21/12/2024 20:38

@OpheliaWasntMad
Its not a secret that Israel want to occupy a strip of land between Egypt and Gaza longterm
“The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has said he intends for Israeli troops to remain in control of the corridor, including the Rafah crossing, after its capture in May, to the alarm of Egypt.…..Egypt continues to reject a heavy Israeli military presence directly on the border and has let it be known that any such presence would threaten the peace treaty….
the defence minister, Yoav Gallant, clashed with Netanyahu in a cabinet meeting, calling on ministers to reverse Thursday’s vote to remain in the corridor if it helped to reach a deal. The opposition leader, Yair Lapid, has accused Netanyahu of being more interested in placating far-right ministers than in the fate of the remaining hostages.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/sep/03/what-is-the-philadelphi-corridor-israel-gaza-egypt-netanyahu

What is the Philadelphi corridor, and why is it so important to Israel?

Netanyahu has made control of the strip between Gaza and Egypt a condition in ceasefire negotiations

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/sep/03/what-is-the-philadelphi-corridor-israel-gaza-egypt-netanyahu

Afreebird · 21/12/2024 20:42

Wasn't the whole scandal of leaking classified state secrets to the press based on this? Netanyahu wanted it leaked which sabotaged the deal because he prioritised occupying the corridor over the hostages.

Piverlool · 21/12/2024 20:44

OpheliaWasntMad · 21/12/2024 20:02

But how come Michael D knows what the Israeli government plans to do (with relation to settlements) in Egypt ? Surely his comments with regard to Egypt and”another land grab” are conjecture so why do you say he is “ absolutely right” ?

Personally, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this comment was made shortly after his meeting with the Eygptian president in Áras an Uachtaráin on 11th December.

OpheliaWasntMad · 21/12/2024 20:46

Kindatired · 21/12/2024 20:38

@OpheliaWasntMad
Its not a secret that Israel want to occupy a strip of land between Egypt and Gaza longterm
“The Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has said he intends for Israeli troops to remain in control of the corridor, including the Rafah crossing, after its capture in May, to the alarm of Egypt.…..Egypt continues to reject a heavy Israeli military presence directly on the border and has let it be known that any such presence would threaten the peace treaty….
the defence minister, Yoav Gallant, clashed with Netanyahu in a cabinet meeting, calling on ministers to reverse Thursday’s vote to remain in the corridor if it helped to reach a deal. The opposition leader, Yair Lapid, has accused Netanyahu of being more interested in placating far-right ministers than in the fate of the remaining hostages.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/sep/03/what-is-the-philadelphi-corridor-israel-gaza-egypt-netanyahu

Yes - my understanding is that this is a strip of Gazan land bordering Egypt that is militarily occupied by Israel? Are you saying that Israel has plans to breech Egypt’s sovereignty and occupy Egyptian land?

OpheliaWasntMad · 21/12/2024 20:51

Piverlool · 21/12/2024 20:44

Personally, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this comment was made shortly after his meeting with the Eygptian president in Áras an Uachtaráin on 11th December.

Edited

Yes. I can imagine Egypt is nervous about the activity near its border. I think diplomatic conversations in private are better - at least initially.

OpheliaWasntMad · 21/12/2024 21:01

I just think the whole region is in such a tense and dangerous situation that all foreign diplomats need to be careful about the language they use .
It’s one thing to draw public attention to the treatment of helpless Gazan citizens …( that is obviously right and just)

but it’s a different thing for an Irish minister accuse Israel publicly of things they are ( or are not) planning to do in the Egyptian militarised zone . I think that’s not something that should be done on a whim .

Piverlool · 21/12/2024 21:19

@OpheliaWasntMad

https://www.timesofisrael.com/intelligence-ministry-concept-paper-proposes-transferring-gazans-to-egypts-sinai/amp/

The above is a link from last year but shows how Eygpt has long feared, with good reason, that the Israeli government wants to displace Gazans to Eygpt.

I doubt those fears have gone away.

Afreebird · 21/12/2024 21:42

Piverlool · 21/12/2024 21:19

@OpheliaWasntMad

https://www.timesofisrael.com/intelligence-ministry-concept-paper-proposes-transferring-gazans-to-egypts-sinai/amp/

The above is a link from last year but shows how Eygpt has long feared, with good reason, that the Israeli government wants to displace Gazans to Eygpt.

I doubt those fears have gone away.

There was further disgusting comments of 'voluntary emigration' ie ethnic cleansing by Israeli minister today, so they have every reason to be.

ScrollingLeaves · 21/12/2024 21:55

Afreebird · 21/12/2024 21:42

There was further disgusting comments of 'voluntary emigration' ie ethnic cleansing by Israeli minister today, so they have every reason to be.

This is from 16 Dec.
Ben -Givr brings it up tge ‘voluntary emigration’ again and again during an argument with one of the freed hostage women who is begging him to end the war and do a deal.

Trigger Warning (rape)

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ben-gvir-to-ex-hostage-even-if-captives-being-raped-deal-will-cause-10000-future-rapes/

OpheliaWasntMad · 21/12/2024 23:19

ScrollingLeaves · 21/12/2024 21:55

This is from 16 Dec.
Ben -Givr brings it up tge ‘voluntary emigration’ again and again during an argument with one of the freed hostage women who is begging him to end the war and do a deal.

Trigger Warning (rape)

https://www.timesofisrael.com/ben-gvir-to-ex-hostage-even-if-captives-being-raped-deal-will-cause-10000-future-rapes/

Edited

Horrific

Kindatired · 22/12/2024 00:08

@OpheliaWasntMad No, I’m not saying that Israel is planning on invading Egypt. We are speculating as to why Michael D might make his remark.

In the last few months Israel has moved in on Lebanon and Syria and attacked two other countries . Israel has occupied the Sinai peninsula twice before. It’s occupying the Palestinian Territories for decades and illegally annexed the Golan heights. It was in this context the remark was made, and I personally think he was referencing the Philadelphi corridor with some deliberately ambiguous language.

The speech was not an official one and it wasn’t noticed by anyone outside the Israeli press until picked up from there by the Times of India. So maybe this has been silently ricocheting around the halls of diplomacy long before Michael D’ s remark.

It’s interesting that he had been speaking to the Egyptian president recently, so maybe he’s better informed than us on the matter? Would Egypt really put up a resistance if Israel tried to retake the Sinai peninsula? Probably not. And who would stop it?

andIsaid · 22/12/2024 02:01

OpheliaWasntMad · 21/12/2024 15:46

We’re not currently talking about “a savage, terror campaign against civilians”
The discussion was about comments made by Michael D Higgins about Israel and Egypt.

If those comments are not true then it undermines his other points because he becomes less trustworthy as a commentator. Sticking to facts and truth is important if he wants to maintain the integrity of Ireland’s position.

So of course he should clarify and apologise if he has “misspoken”

You don't have comments made by Michael D Higgins about Israel and Egypt without the “savage, terror campaign against civilians.”

The latter drives the former.

OpheliaWasntMad · 22/12/2024 09:56

andIsaid · 22/12/2024 02:01

You don't have comments made by Michael D Higgins about Israel and Egypt without the “savage, terror campaign against civilians.”

The latter drives the former.

My point was that Michael D cannot say whatever he thinks about Israel without due regard to the facts and consequences.

Auvergne63 · 22/12/2024 10:24

OpheliaWasntMad · 22/12/2024 09:56

My point was that Michael D cannot say whatever he thinks about Israel without due regard to the facts and consequences.

Does this also applies to Netanyahu too?

OpheliaWasntMad · 22/12/2024 10:30

Auvergne63 · 22/12/2024 10:24

Does this also applies to Netanyahu too?

Of course! I think several posters on here are rightly pointing out their concerns with Netanyahu

OpheliaWasntMad · 22/12/2024 10:36

Michael D Higgins is not entirely consistent with his condemnation of aggressive and dangerous states.
He wrote a letter congratulating the Iranian president on his appointment . Iran funds the Hamas terrorists who orchestrated October 7th and made life so terrible for the people of Gaza.
https://x.com/gavreilly/status/1837919750959075346?s=46

Edited to add - the community notes on the twitter pages are also interesting

x.com

https://x.com/gavreilly/status/1837919750959075346?s=46

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