Ireland believe genocide being perpetrated

[username7891]

I'm surprised this hasn't already been posted but Ireland passed a non binding motion a few days ago that “genocide is being perpetrated before our eyes by Israel in Gaza”.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/micheal-martin-ireland-south-africa-gaza-people-b1192666.html

The conflict only ended in the 90s. And when there is no justice, as is the case for many, it's hard to get over. Much as it would be handy for everyone if you did.

This started off with me criticising the term “English invaders . “ I was told that was an accurate term but it’s not an accurate term for describing the situation in the North in the 20th century .
If this is about the Troubles in the 90’s then let’s drop the term “English invaders” as it’s a bigoted term in that context…

But no one was using it to refer to people today! PP clarified that many times.

Is there a reason why you are being oddly defensive about this?
Yes, even those Scottish people whether poor or rich were coming to a foreign land with the agreement that they would Anglicise the place and that means enforcing English speaking and loyalty to the king. Addressing the facts that a colonial settlers invaded foreign land is what it is. I'm not sure why you're choosing to take some sort of permanent offense to PP accurately describing them as invaders when she was responding to the numerous suggestions that Ireland and Israel were similar nations.

Is there a reason why you are being oddly defensive about this?

Yes . The peace process matters and depends on communities moving on from past hurts. I know how much suffering happened on both sides . I know how much damage the hatred and bigotry has caused on both sides. Some rhetoric is damaging. That’s all .

It’s all a bit complicated. Tenant buyouts preceded independence and the Land commission arranged the agreed transfer to tenants, but there was also provision for compulsory purchase. After independence, an act was passed to allow compulsory purchase from non citizens and some of the big estates of absentee landlords were divided up and allocated to small farmers to make their holdings viable. This was all happening against a background of decades of agrarian unrest and debt ridden landed estates.

After the Land Acts, instead of rent the Irish farmers (all religions) had the opportunity to buy their holdings by paying the Irish Government an annuity.Then the Irish government in turn paid the British government quarter of a a million pounds a year for years out of these annuities to amass a land purchase fund. Then the Irish got fed up of paying the British government money every year for the land because about two thirds of TDs thought it it seemed stupid to be paying your former oppressor money that would be better spent on repairing derelict infrastructure that was inhibiting economic acitivity. They stopped paying the annuities but it contributed to the economic war and that didn’t go well. Eventually the Irish government paid the British government £10 million to be done with it as WW2 loomed on the horizon in 1938.
So while a few Anglo Irish family had their houses burnt down or threats made against them , it wasn’t a big expulsion. Times were very hard and most families with farms struggled and lost members to war or immigration. My grandmother bought a house from an absentee landlord’s estate when the family died out ( there was an entail) and was on cordial terms with the remaining family when they came to visit after independence, drinking tea with her in one of their ancestral homes.

Thanks so much @Kindatired. That is all very interesting. I knew of the Land Acts but really didn’t think about any of the details before.

Thanks - interesting

Yes, I think it’s interesting in the sense that an iron dome missile can cost USD100,000+ for a single interception but no deal seems to include proper compensation for the land appropriated by Israel during and after the Nakba. Spend on rockets but not on peace it seems. Kill anyone who’s in a position to negotiate. Keep killing after the military advisors say there’s no point . Kill with no exit ramp. Then deny it’s genocide

So to me it’s pretty clear that the long term goal is ethnic cleansing and obliteration of the Palestinians- in 2 generations Israeli propaganda will have wiped out the memory or just rewritten the narrative.

Has anyone seen this? How can this not be a genocide whempn doctor after doctor gives an account of the children if the group being deliberately targeted?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7893vpy2gqo

@Kindatired that's absolutely heinous. My God.

I heard a spokesman for MSF on Drivetime on RTÉ radio this evening saying how Israel won't allow injured children to leave for medical assistance in Jordan. He mentioned the case of a two year old who had two limbs amputated being amongst those denied.

So Israel blew off this two year old's legs, bombed and destroyed the medical facilities in Gaza to deny him or her medical treatment, and now they won't allow them to leave to get treatment.

It's the most disgusting behaviour I've ever heard.

It's the most disgusting behaviour I've ever heard.

There's a lot of competition for that. For me it could be dropping off fresh food then taking out the people coming for it with drones.

Yes, fair point. I still can't get over them leaving the premature babies to die and rot last year in the NICU. I cried a lot over that. It didn't cause a ripple in the news.

I don't know why their behaviour still shocks me, but I suppose right thinking people will always be shocked by the depravity of the IDF. It's hard to fathom.

@Kindatired I read that earlier today, it was almost like I was reading a dystopian horror story. I don't think I can fully put into words the anger I feel knowing my government chooses to be complicit in this genocide.

It's shocking and I'm glad I'm shocked because indifference is a sign of inhumanity. Some of the genocidal rhetoric has been horrific in its indifference.

This was another tough read. Tortured to death in an Israeli prison.

https://news.sky.com/story/he-was-the-light-of-my-life-and-i-lost-him-how-a-famous-surgeon-died-in-an-israeli-prison-after-being-taken-from-gaza-hospital-13253157

From the article
TRIGGER WARNING

A prisoner, who says he previously knew Dr Al-Bursh in Gaza, provided details in a deposition to lawyers from the Israeli human rights organisation HaMoked.
"In mid-April 2024, Dr Adnan Al-Bursh arrived at Section 23 in Ofer Prison. The prison guards brought Dr Adnan Al-Bursh into the section in a deplorable state. He had clearly been assaulted with injuries around his body. He was naked in the lower part of his body.
"The prison guards threw him in the middle of the yard and left him there. Dr Adnan Al-Bursh was unable to stand up. One of the prisoners helped him and accompanied him to one of the rooms. A few minutes later, prisoners were heard screaming from the room they went into, declaring Dr Adnan Al-Bursh (was dead)."

The Normans first conquered Ireland in 1169 and aside from a brief decade of independence during the 1640s Ireland formed an integral part of the English imperial system, until 1922 and the foundation of modern state. As well as being colonised the Irish operated as active colonists in the empires of Britain and other European powers.
READ MORE
www.irishtimes.com/opinion/ireland-has-yet-to-come-to-terms-with-its-imperial-past-1.4444146

These are horrific reports. I find it too hard to read the links.
In particular I will not forget the suffering of Sha’ban Al Dalou and his family and little Hind Rajab. For me they represent what Palestinian families are enduring.

I have spent some time arguing on here about the nature of some of the Palestinian protests in my city . Which in my view have raised tensions against Jewish people and refused to denounce Hamas.
However the ongoing relentless assault on the Palestinians is horrifying.

Shame to Israel for that murder and others like them. If they really thought that in the midst of all the operations he was carrying out he was also a terrorist, where was his trial? They’d be scared of a trial though
probably.

"All basic rights required are fully applied by professionally trained prison guards.
We are not aware of the claims you described and as far as we know, no such events have occurred under IPS responsibility."
Israel Prison Service
Statement

Lying again.

There was no charge recorded against him. It is routine to detain and imprison healthcare workers. Some get released back into Gaza after suffering a period of torture, some are still imprisoned and others like DR Adnan are murdered.

Yes we know that. I've personally found your insistence on always making a "both sides" argument in the face of these atrocities to be pretty unpalatable. There's no excuse for what Israel is doing. Maybe you should read the links.

To quote Desmond Tutu: "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor."

I’m not going to change my way of commenting to suit you so probably best you don’t read my posts.
I will continue to try to see both sides as much as I can . I do feel for the families of the hostages and I do understand that the Jewish community outside of Israel feel vulnerable and threatened. If it’s unpalatable to you to hear that then that’s too bad.
But I am not going to defend the ongoing assault on Palestinians or the actions of settlers … and that is the focus of this thread so let’s keep it that way ( unless you really want to keep attacking me?)