Amsterdam

[EricInk]

I can't believe how unbalanced the media reporting is of the events last night

The maccabi fans were behaving atrociously and inciting conflict the entire day, pulling down flags, chanting 'fuck Palestine' and intimidating Dutch Arabs

What sort of journalist refers to Jewish or Israeli people as 'zionists' ? Massive red flag.

I might be wrong but probably wherever Israeli teams play mossad goes with them

there is a match this week in Paris I think I’ve read. Hopefully hooligans won’t behave like thugs.

unfortunately , I feel press and politicians have rightly criticised antisemitism but have failed to criticise Islamophobia and attacks on local residents.

A user that calls themselves 'left laser' 😶

I researched her. She has been appointed by a Yisrael Katz, Israeli foreign minister, as an Special Advisor for Combating Antisemitism. His views on Gaza are. let's say. unsavoury.
She had also been given, previously, a role in Netanyahu's cabinet.
Do I need to go on?

Care to elaborate on the "views" on here?

They don’t need to “elaborate” the views on here. It is written and clear to see.

This is just another “let’s shut down the discussion” card being played out because you are choosing to ask someone to keep going over points for arguments sake. If you can’t follow the narrative and see the different points of views coming from different posters then that’s a you problem.

Governments really did fail to condemn all acts of violence.

Yes, there's a match between France and Israel on Thursday.

Hopefully there will be little to no trouble as it is an International match.

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241110-france-to-deploy-4-000-police-officers-for-israel-match-following-amsterdam-violence

As always things like this don’t just happen organically.

The Maccabi fans who started violence and hateful chanting were wrong, fights between football hooligans are wrong but it could have been left there and it would have been more clear cut.

The reaction by people in Amsterdam then going out and targeting Jews was abhorrent. These people may have been Maccabi fans, non- fans or just Jewish people in related to football, or Maccabi fans who did not want or partake in hooliganism.

The planned WhatsApp groups by taxi drivers against Israelis is abhorrent. This is just targeting people because they are from a place you don’t like or of a religion you don’t like.

Now, it seems all Jews and Israelis have been lumped together with people thinking it’s okay to walk the streets attacking Jews.

If Liverpool fans went to an Arsenal game, and acted like hooligans, would it then be just for people in London to go out and attack anyone that is from Liverpool or supports the team because some fans fro
there attacked them…?

I find it interesting that you feel the need to jump in. This question wasn't addressed to you. I am sure the poster can speak for herself/ himself.
You also should never assume anything about anyone because 9 times out 10 you would be wrong, which you most definitively are in my case.

You are missing the point.

Maybe you can clarify what your point was. Do you think that the men chanting for the "IDF to finish the Arabs" don't self identify as Zionist? You seem to be implying the journalist was using that as an insult or applying it to all Jewish people or Israelis despite the fact they were describing the Maccabi Fans. In which case I'm still confused where your line is on what's acceptable and what should be looked past.

Nobody is saying that it is right. They are saying that if the police ignore racism and violence only when it is directed at one particular group of people it is going to predictably going to cause problems.

The police stood by for days before the match, days before the taxi WhatsApp group and watched violence, racism, death threats and the glorifying of the mass killing of children and did nothing. Even when these racist thugs armed themselves the police still did nothing, despite their violence in the days before and despite death threats. Then the other 'side' gets violent and racist too and gets arrested as they should.

The riots last night about the polices conduct again shouldn't have happened but was predictable and should have been predicted. The people that the police decided weren't worth protecting in the prior days should have been apologised to, the police who stood by and watched them be abused should be investigated for racist conduct. None of that happened though and people were angry about it. As the UK knows well when people get angry enough that spills out onto the streets.

The police failed massively. They acted in a racist, biased fashion. Nobody should be expected to put up with racism, violence and death threats yet some people were and questions need to be asked as to why that happened.

I might be wrong but I believe maccabi supporters attacked a taxi driver the day before. I can see it being related as to why taxi drivers then attacked maccabi supporters. I’m not justifying it but trying to understand why it was taxi drivers who did the attacks

islamophobia , antisemitism and attacks is wrong for both sides. Police , politicians and press have criticised one and done a blind eye for the another one when they were as bad

I guess the police didn't want to deal with either political pressure from the US and Israel, or then press publications accusing them of antisemitism, corruption or pedophilia.. It doesn't have to be true to cause some damage.

If they took that risk, arrested some hooligans, sent them home with a mark not to be allowed back into the Schengen for some time then we would not see the public violence and it would be safer for all future matches in Europe.
So, the either the police failed, or they were restrained and could not act. The latter is worse.

How would the US or Israeli government put pressure on the Dutch police? What's the mechanism for restraining them in a democratic country?

If Liverpool fans went to an Arsenal game, and acted like hooligans

And this is not football hooliganism. Again there is no excuse for violence but there is no excuse for downplaying this as 'football hooligans' either.

I have no idea of the exact mechanism.
I guess it must have something to do with the fact that Europe (including the UK) fully depends on the US for its security. No governement will come out to its electorat saying 'I have chosen international laws over your security'.
And so, when there is a UN vote over whether a country should stop breaking international laws, the US votes against and the UK abstains.
When BBC reports of a school bombing in Gaza, Starmer's reaction is to come out decrying the rise of antisemitism and declaring that they'll teach about the Holocaust in every school.

Europe does not fully depend on the US for its security. NATO has 32 members & while the US may be the biggest single spender European nations spend over 240 billion euros on defence. Then you're talking about the UN? Which the US does not control due to the power of Russia & China. But I have no idea what that has to do with controlling the operational decisions of a police force anyway? And again, how would the Israeli government control the operational decisions of the Amsterdam police?

The football fans are all back in Israel now so what's the current excuse for the ongoing antisemitic violence?

From what I've read and from looking at the Russia-Ukraine war, Europe strongly depends on the US for its security.

If it's not for the 'special relationship', how can you explain the record of the UK's votes in the UN? That's a rhetorical question, I guess we both have not been to the UN meetings, I don't expect an answer.

I don't know how exactly anyone influences. I guess one phone call to a minister would be enough to pass the 'advice'.
If I try to consider the reasons for what we observe without the influence, the world makes much less sense. That's it.

To accuse a foreign power of meddling in the operational decisions of an independent police force in a democratic countrt is a pretty serious charge. Im glad you've rowed back from it.

Of course the US is important in NATO & Eiropean defence. You said Europe was fully dependent on the US. Its irrelevant to Dutch police operations on the ground anyway.

I'm not rowing back from any of my words or opinions. I said what I said. I just clarified that I'm not claiming to know any mechanism and added a bit for a better understanding of my position.

How do you explain that the UK has not condemned Israeli actions of the past 12 months? Not a freaking single incident. Do you believe they democratically approve the shredding of children? Or, do they believe that Palestinians are not fully humans? There must be a reason for their position

So you do believe the Israeli government can control the operations of the Dutch police force then? Ok. I think we're done.

Do you think the US cannot?