Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

Amsterdam

645 replies

EricInk · 08/11/2024 09:58

I can't believe how unbalanced the media reporting is of the events last night

The maccabi fans were behaving atrociously and inciting conflict the entire day, pulling down flags, chanting 'fuck Palestine' and intimidating Dutch Arabs

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
ismu · 10/11/2024 12:47

An amazing thread on the subject and background about Geert Wilders

x.com/mouinrabbani/status/1855427545262399585?s=46

Usernamesareboring1 · 10/11/2024 12:49

ismu · 10/11/2024 12:41

Maccabi Tel Aviv

Not only do the Israeli club’s supporters have a reputation for genocidal racism (their motto is “Death to the Arabs”, supplemented with the chant, “May Your Village Burn”), but many of those who traveled to Amsterdam have during the past year served in the Israeli military’s genocidal campaign against the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

Let's see how many posters remember this the next time they insist that the IDF would never target civilians especially children.

GhostCicada · 10/11/2024 13:12

ismu · 10/11/2024 12:47

An amazing thread on the subject and background about Geert Wilders

x.com/mouinrabbani/status/1855427545262399585?s=46

It's pretty appalling. Israelis left to damage the property of Dutch Arabs and subject them to racist abuse in the days preceding the match. Not a single Israeli arrest for roaming the streets where Dutch Arabs live and work calling for their deaths. If you are Dutch Arab are you not entitled to the same protections as everyone else? The whole thing reeks of racism. Dutch Arabs have been shown clearly what the police think of them and what they think they deserve.

KoalaBC · 10/11/2024 13:30

It's also amazing how posters insist that the retaliation of some of the fans being beaten up was 100% disproportionate despite their initial provocation. But thousands and thousands of dead Palestinian children killed by Israel is 'complex' and not necessarily disproportionate.
This is the only thread on this board where some of the pro-Israeli posters are insistent that the violence is disproportionate (and i'm not talking about attacking Jewish people unrelated to the violent Maccabi fans) and should be condemned by all. Such astonishing bare faced hypocrisy.

Limesodaagain · 10/11/2024 13:46

Well I’ve learned something new! I definitely didn’t know that!

EasterIssland · 10/11/2024 13:55

Francesca albaneses comment regarding Amsterdams incidents

https://x.com/FranceskAlbs/status/1855372540098777285

x.com

https://x.com/FranceskAlbs/status/1855372540098777285

GhostCicada · 10/11/2024 14:44

EasterIssland · 10/11/2024 13:55

Francesca albaneses comment regarding Amsterdams incidents

https://x.com/FranceskAlbs/status/1855372540098777285

It's bizarre honestly. Why were racist tourists attacking Amsterdam residents, calling for their deaths, damaging their property ignored? Why is the football association being so quiet? There were apologies from Dutch officials to Israelis, perpetrators have been arrested, why have Israeli officials not apologised for the behaviour of their racist residents? Why is the bar so low for Israeli fans behaviour that even the police in Amsterdam don't blink at their overt racist actions and the media pretty much ignores it?

Auvergne63 · 10/11/2024 14:49

Limesodaagain · 10/11/2024 13:46

Well I’ve learned something new! I definitely didn’t know that!

Well we learn every day! At least, you recognise your mistake. I always think that it is a sign of integrity to do so.

yesmen · 10/11/2024 21:55

GhostCicada · 10/11/2024 14:44

It's bizarre honestly. Why were racist tourists attacking Amsterdam residents, calling for their deaths, damaging their property ignored? Why is the football association being so quiet? There were apologies from Dutch officials to Israelis, perpetrators have been arrested, why have Israeli officials not apologised for the behaviour of their racist residents? Why is the bar so low for Israeli fans behaviour that even the police in Amsterdam don't blink at their overt racist actions and the media pretty much ignores it?

Edited

Can you imagine if a gang of Arab yobs landed in Jordan chanting “schools are closed because we killed all the kids?”

How would that play I wonder?

TheHope · 11/11/2024 18:33

Reproduced in full from jpost:

The basic commitment of Europe to Jews after WWII - which was 'Never Again'- has exploded, journalist and author Fiamma Nierenstein said in conversation with theJerusalem Post.

Italian-Israeli Nirenstein, a former politician in Italy, is an expert on antisemitism at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, and the Foreign Ministry's special advisor on combating antisemitism.

In conversation with the Post, she recounted a recent press trip to the Gaza border, where she met an IDF soldier whose grandfather was in Auschwitz, whose father fought in the Yom Kippur War, and who himself was now about to fight in Gaza.

"I am never again," the soldier told her.

Israel is the one actively fighting a "system of hate which wishes to destroy civilization and culture," Nirenstein said, making her realize that Jews and Israel "are the only ones with the right to say 'never again,' and mean it"

In Europe, in the countries supposed to be the very guardians of these values, "There has been a true failure of the 'never again' promise," she added.
One only needs to look at the crowds chanting for an end to democracy, for death to the Jews, for the destruction of Israel from the river to the sea, to see this failure, Nirenstein said.

She stressed that this happened much before the large wave of immigration from Islamic nations to Europe, bringing with it an anti-Western ideology.

The story of the denial of 'never again' began in the USSR, Nirenstein told the Post, which, with its harsh criticism of imperialism and capitalism, generated a self-hate in the West.

"This then became an instrument of power," she added. "The way the communist building enriched itself was through the establishment of the UN" which she said became the basis of much of the West's self-implosion.

On November 10, 1975, the UN General Assembly adopted Resolution 3379, declaring Zionism "a form of racism and racial discrimination.”

The UN, as the seeming instrument of democracy, sought to label the Jewish democracy as a racist, colonialist, and imperialist force.

As a result of this, Nirenstein explained, the oppressors were labeled as the oppressed, and the oppressed as the oppressors.

"On Thursday night we saw the aggression of young Muslims in Amsterdam [against Israelis], and the next day, blond youths wearing Keffiyehs were the ones protesting.”

"These are the children of the West who think of themselves as the imperialist, racist, oppressors," Nirenstein said. As a way of absolving themselves of guilt, the self-hating Westerners commit a sort of "suicide."

Allying themselves with who they believe to be the oppressed and identifying themselves as the oppressors allows those in the West to feel they have atoned, she said.

"It is the same phenomenon we see in universities, by which Shakespeare is cancelled, Churchill is cancelled, the founders of America: cancelled," Nirenstein adds.

"Here is a huge movement of self-destruction of the West, and in the middle is antisemitism."

This has significant impacts for Israel, which "suffers a strategic blow from this situation," Nirenstein added.

With the hiding of modern antisemitism behind the guise of anti-Zionism, Israel has become demonized and delegitimized.
Setting this in context, Nirenstein referenced how, on 24 October 2023, the UN Secretary General stood up and said that it was "important to also recognize the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum."

Sec. Gen. Antonio Guterres then said "the Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation."

"That word 'occupation' legitimized antisemitism," Nirenstein told the Post.
"It forms an antisemitism that is almost unconscious," she added. By framing the Jewish presence in the land of Israel as an occupation, the UN - at the center of Western democracy - forged Jews into the oppressors, the colonialists, the imperialists, neglecting, as Nirenstein continued, the indigeneity of the Jewish people to the land.

"If [European states] don't want people attacking Jews in their countries, they must wash their mouths," she told the Post.

Nirenstein spoke of the perniciousness of the denial of Jewish indigeneity.

She used the example of the UNESCO World Heritage Sites, in which the ancient city of Jericho, Hebron and Bethlehem (the birthplace of Jesus), among others are all listed under "State of Palestine"
These areas listed are home to multiple Jewish sites. Hebron, for example, is one of the Four Holy Cities of Judaism, and home to the Cave of the Patriarchs, where Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Rebecca, Jacob and Leah are buried.

The UN's denial of these as Jewish sites, is a form of delegitimization, Nirenstein explained. She spoke of Natan Sharansky's Three Ds test, which stands for delegitimization, demonization and double standards, all which are supposed to distinguish legitimate criticism of Israel from antisemitism. Under this model, the UN is guilty on all three counts.
All this circles back to the Axis of Evil, Nirenstein said.

"Whether it is Hezbollah shooting hundreds of rockets into Israel daily, the attack on Jews in Amsterdam, the war on Ukraine, it's all the Axis of Evil waking up and trying to put the last bomb in the building that is democratic society."

But for Nirenstein, there is hope.

"When we win, and we will win, they will be frightened and they will step back."
After Israel's victory, there will be a return to the Abraham accords, at which point countries will flock back to Israel.

There will, of course, be an inevitable wave of Aliyah as well, Nirenstein added, as diaspora Jews realize the threat of antisemitism and desire the safe haven that is the Jewish state.

However, this does not preclude the need for the fight against antisemitism.
"Aliyah isn't the solution for antisemitism," she said.

"We will fight antisemitism in the Diaspora, and Jews will choose to come here, but these happen in parallel."

m.jpost.com/judaism/article-828638

IDF Articles and latest stories | The Jerusalem Post

Breaking news about IDF from The Jerusalem Post. Read the latest updates on IDF including articles, videos, opinions and more.

https://m.jpost.com/tags/idf

Dulra · 11/11/2024 19:16

TheHope · 11/11/2024 18:33

Reproduced in full from jpost:

The basic commitment of Europe to Jews after WWII - which was 'Never Again'- has exploded, journalist and author Fiamma Nierenstein said in conversation with theJerusalem Post.

Italian-Israeli Nirenstein, a former politician in Italy, is an expert on antisemitism at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, and the Foreign Ministry's special advisor on combating antisemitism.

In conversation with the Post, she recounted a recent press trip to the Gaza border, where she met an IDF soldier whose grandfather was in Auschwitz, whose father fought in the Yom Kippur War, and who himself was now about to fight in Gaza.

"I am never again," the soldier told her.

Israel is the one actively fighting a "system of hate which wishes to destroy civilization and culture," Nirenstein said, making her realize that Jews and Israel "are the only ones with the right to say 'never again,' and mean it"

In Europe, in the countries supposed to be the very guardians of these values, "There has been a true failure of the 'never again' promise," she added.
One only needs to look at the crowds chanting for an end to democracy, for death to the Jews, for the destruction of Israel from the river to the sea, to see this failure, Nirenstein said.

She stressed that this happened much before the large wave of immigration from Islamic nations to Europe, bringing with it an anti-Western ideology.

The story of the denial of 'never again' began in the USSR, Nirenstein told the Post, which, with its harsh criticism of imperialism and capitalism, generated a self-hate in the West.

"This then became an instrument of power," she added. "The way the communist building enriched itself was through the establishment of the UN" which she said became the basis of much of the West's self-implosion.

On November 10, 1975, the UN General Assembly adopted Resolution 3379, declaring Zionism "a form of racism and racial discrimination.”

The UN, as the seeming instrument of democracy, sought to label the Jewish democracy as a racist, colonialist, and imperialist force.

As a result of this, Nirenstein explained, the oppressors were labeled as the oppressed, and the oppressed as the oppressors.

"On Thursday night we saw the aggression of young Muslims in Amsterdam [against Israelis], and the next day, blond youths wearing Keffiyehs were the ones protesting.”

"These are the children of the West who think of themselves as the imperialist, racist, oppressors," Nirenstein said. As a way of absolving themselves of guilt, the self-hating Westerners commit a sort of "suicide."

Allying themselves with who they believe to be the oppressed and identifying themselves as the oppressors allows those in the West to feel they have atoned, she said.

"It is the same phenomenon we see in universities, by which Shakespeare is cancelled, Churchill is cancelled, the founders of America: cancelled," Nirenstein adds.

"Here is a huge movement of self-destruction of the West, and in the middle is antisemitism."

This has significant impacts for Israel, which "suffers a strategic blow from this situation," Nirenstein added.

With the hiding of modern antisemitism behind the guise of anti-Zionism, Israel has become demonized and delegitimized.
Setting this in context, Nirenstein referenced how, on 24 October 2023, the UN Secretary General stood up and said that it was "important to also recognize the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum."

Sec. Gen. Antonio Guterres then said "the Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation."

"That word 'occupation' legitimized antisemitism," Nirenstein told the Post.
"It forms an antisemitism that is almost unconscious," she added. By framing the Jewish presence in the land of Israel as an occupation, the UN - at the center of Western democracy - forged Jews into the oppressors, the colonialists, the imperialists, neglecting, as Nirenstein continued, the indigeneity of the Jewish people to the land.

"If [European states] don't want people attacking Jews in their countries, they must wash their mouths," she told the Post.

Nirenstein spoke of the perniciousness of the denial of Jewish indigeneity.

She used the example of the UNESCO World Heritage Sites, in which the ancient city of Jericho, Hebron and Bethlehem (the birthplace of Jesus), among others are all listed under "State of Palestine"
These areas listed are home to multiple Jewish sites. Hebron, for example, is one of the Four Holy Cities of Judaism, and home to the Cave of the Patriarchs, where Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Rebecca, Jacob and Leah are buried.

The UN's denial of these as Jewish sites, is a form of delegitimization, Nirenstein explained. She spoke of Natan Sharansky's Three Ds test, which stands for delegitimization, demonization and double standards, all which are supposed to distinguish legitimate criticism of Israel from antisemitism. Under this model, the UN is guilty on all three counts.
All this circles back to the Axis of Evil, Nirenstein said.

"Whether it is Hezbollah shooting hundreds of rockets into Israel daily, the attack on Jews in Amsterdam, the war on Ukraine, it's all the Axis of Evil waking up and trying to put the last bomb in the building that is democratic society."

But for Nirenstein, there is hope.

"When we win, and we will win, they will be frightened and they will step back."
After Israel's victory, there will be a return to the Abraham accords, at which point countries will flock back to Israel.

There will, of course, be an inevitable wave of Aliyah as well, Nirenstein added, as diaspora Jews realize the threat of antisemitism and desire the safe haven that is the Jewish state.

However, this does not preclude the need for the fight against antisemitism.
"Aliyah isn't the solution for antisemitism," she said.

"We will fight antisemitism in the Diaspora, and Jews will choose to come here, but these happen in parallel."

m.jpost.com/judaism/article-828638

Thanks for sharing. It is an enlightening look into her mind. Have you read it? Do you agree with what she's saying such as the following

In conversation with the Post, she recounted a recent press trip to the Gaza border, where she met an IDF soldier whose grandfather was in Auschwitz, whose father fought in the Yom Kippur War, and who himself was now about to fight in Gaza.
"I am never again," the soldier told her.
I find this appalling tbh. Using that as excuse for the attrocities being carried out in in Gaza is shocking.

She stressed that this happened much before the large wave of immigration from Islamic nations to Europe, bringing with it an anti-Western ideology.
Bit of islamaphobia thrown in.

These are the children of the West who think of themselves as the imperialist, racist, oppressors," Nirenstein said. As a way of absolving themselves of guilt, the self-hating Westerners commit a sort of "suicide."
????

"If [European states] don't want people attacking Jews in their countries, they must wash their mouths," she told the Post.
Why?

TheHope · 11/11/2024 19:40

Of course, I’ve read it several times and agree with every word.

In case anyone missed it, there was an actual Jew hunt on the streets of Amsterdam in 2024 and people are denying it. Whether they can’t see it or they don’t want to see it, it happened. Football hooliganism is fucking disgusting, it happens all over the world and is inexcusable but it is never usually a provocation for a Jew hunt, it cannot mitigate the horror.

The night before the anniversary of Kristallnacht people were asking Jews for papers and beating them up. On the streets of Amsterdam. In 2024.

stormy4319trevor · 11/11/2024 19:46

LetThereBeLove · 10/11/2024 10:02

While thousands of others (including gays, people of colour, Romanies etc) than Jews were exterminated by the Nazis and their supporters in countries other than Germany I repeat - SIX MILLION Jewish men, women and children were slaughtered for being Jewish.

Edited

I read Statista's figure of upwards of 17 million people were systematically killed by the Nazis. I think the figure is continuously revised as new evidence comes to light, perhaps. 6 million of the 17 and upwards million figure have consistently been identified as Jewish.

TheHope · 11/11/2024 19:48

It only starts with Jewish people, it doesn’t end there.

GhostCicada · 11/11/2024 20:51

That word 'occupation' legitimized antisemitism," Nirenstein told the Post.
"It forms an antisemitism that is almost unconscious," she added. By framing the Jewish presence in the land of Israel as an occupation, the UN - at the center of Western democracy - forged Jews into the oppressors, the colonialists, the imperialists, neglecting, as Nirenstein continued, the indigeneity of the Jewish people to the land.

I find this confusing. Is this saying that Gaza and the West Bank are Israel? If not then what is happening there if not occupation? @TheHope you agree with every word so I presume you can clear up what the author is saying?

@thehooe@thehooe@thehooe@thehooe

^^ Ignore this babble I mistyped the @ and everytime I tried to delete it it got more babbled.

KoalaBC · 11/11/2024 21:06

You can't criticise the occupation lest you be branded as an anti-semite?
I honestly found some parts of that article outrageous, who exactly is the target audience? If I didn't know who was being interviewed, I would think it was someone with an extreme right wing position like Ben Gvir.

"As a result of this, Nirenstein explained, the oppressors were labeled as the oppressed, and the oppressed as the oppressors."

Wow.

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 11/11/2024 21:13

Back to the topic of the thread.... there's rioting tonight in Amsterdam, with gangs smashing windows, setting trams on fire and shouting "cancer Jews".

KoalaBC · 11/11/2024 21:20

GhostCicada · 11/11/2024 20:51

That word 'occupation' legitimized antisemitism," Nirenstein told the Post.
"It forms an antisemitism that is almost unconscious," she added. By framing the Jewish presence in the land of Israel as an occupation, the UN - at the center of Western democracy - forged Jews into the oppressors, the colonialists, the imperialists, neglecting, as Nirenstein continued, the indigeneity of the Jewish people to the land.

I find this confusing. Is this saying that Gaza and the West Bank are Israel? If not then what is happening there if not occupation? @TheHope you agree with every word so I presume you can clear up what the author is saying?

@thehooe@thehooe@thehooe@thehooe

^^ Ignore this babble I mistyped the @ and everytime I tried to delete it it got more babbled.

She lived (I dont know if she still does) in an illegal settlement herself, which would explain why she is against anyone calling out the occupation.

KoalaBC · 11/11/2024 21:20

And stating that it is anti-semitic to point out the occupation is illegal.

Dulra · 11/11/2024 21:24

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 11/11/2024 21:13

Back to the topic of the thread.... there's rioting tonight in Amsterdam, with gangs smashing windows, setting trams on fire and shouting "cancer Jews".

The dutch government need to seriously sort this out and clamp down on the rioters and calm the tensions without stoking it further

OctoberOctopus · 11/11/2024 21:34

TheHope · 11/11/2024 19:40

Of course, I’ve read it several times and agree with every word.

In case anyone missed it, there was an actual Jew hunt on the streets of Amsterdam in 2024 and people are denying it. Whether they can’t see it or they don’t want to see it, it happened. Football hooliganism is fucking disgusting, it happens all over the world and is inexcusable but it is never usually a provocation for a Jew hunt, it cannot mitigate the horror.

The night before the anniversary of Kristallnacht people were asking Jews for papers and beating them up. On the streets of Amsterdam. In 2024.

I agree.

It's crazy that on MN it's denied, minimised, various excuses or deflection. It's sad and frankly disgusting. Well done some MN users, appalling behaviour.

OctoberOctopus · 11/11/2024 21:35

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 11/11/2024 21:13

Back to the topic of the thread.... there's rioting tonight in Amsterdam, with gangs smashing windows, setting trams on fire and shouting "cancer Jews".

Awful again. It needs sorted quickly. It's nk surprise though given views on here if that is reflected in society.

BelleHathor · 11/11/2024 23:02

Dulra · 11/11/2024 21:24

The dutch government need to seriously sort this out and clamp down on the rioters and calm the tensions without stoking it further

It's the Dutch Police, they stood by on Wednesday when the Macabi "fans" were attacking random Amsterdam citizens and property.

Then they assaulted an 80 year old woman at a march on Saturday.

With the way the whole incident has been misrepresentated by the Media and Politicians, tensions are high.
https://x.com/SenpaiTheories/status/1856093382059131244

x.com

https://x.com/SenpaiTheories/status/1856093382059131244

GhostCicada · 12/11/2024 00:17

BelleHathor · 11/11/2024 23:02

It's the Dutch Police, they stood by on Wednesday when the Macabi "fans" were attacking random Amsterdam citizens and property.

Then they assaulted an 80 year old woman at a march on Saturday.

With the way the whole incident has been misrepresentated by the Media and Politicians, tensions are high.
https://x.com/SenpaiTheories/status/1856093382059131244

Shameful. The third photo is shocking. Where is the King speaking out about how Muslims should be protected?

It was clear that things were going to kick off, there should have been a big apology from the police for their failures to protect the local Dutch Arab population from blatant racism and abuse and a full investigation promised into the police who stood by and watched it happening seemingly giving it the green light. Instead they chose to do nothing proving further that racism against Dutch Arabs residents is police approved. I don't agree with the violence at all but it really was predictable and avoidable if the police cared. Massive failures on their part.

BelleHathor · 12/11/2024 07:41

GhostCicada · 12/11/2024 00:17

Shameful. The third photo is shocking. Where is the King speaking out about how Muslims should be protected?

It was clear that things were going to kick off, there should have been a big apology from the police for their failures to protect the local Dutch Arab population from blatant racism and abuse and a full investigation promised into the police who stood by and watched it happening seemingly giving it the green light. Instead they chose to do nothing proving further that racism against Dutch Arabs residents is police approved. I don't agree with the violence at all but it really was predictable and avoidable if the police cared. Massive failures on their part.

It is absolutely shameful, but it will not be condemned.
Amsterdam is a beautiful, chilled multicultural city as can be seen in the March on Saturday.

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/sports/article-827683
The violence was absolutely predictable, that's why the Jerusalem Post reported last Tuesday the 5th November that Mossad (Israeli intelligence) agents travelled with the Macabi fans.

Local residents of all ethnicities were spat at, physically assaulted then blamed by the Dutch Police.

A local Jewish group leader warned the Police about a lot of Macabi fans being current or ex IDF soldiers and are prone to violence. His group spent the evening protecting a monument as they feared the Macabi fans would deface it.

Thankfully independent journalists are doing a better job than the so called professionals:
https://x.com/LeftLaser/status/1855691420192940140

Just in case: Mossad agents to join Maccabi Tel Aviv FC trip to Amsterdam

In the first year of a revamped format, the yellow-and-blue currently sit in 34th place out of 36 teams in the Europa League, with three losses from three games.

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/sports/article-827683