Amsterdam

[EricInk]

I can't believe how unbalanced the media reporting is of the events last night

The maccabi fans were behaving atrociously and inciting conflict the entire day, pulling down flags, chanting 'fuck Palestine' and intimidating Dutch Arabs

No, that's not true that it's the only reference for it.

The exact meaning of the phrase is debated, including whether it should be used as a particularistic command to avert a second Holocaust of Jews or whether it is a universalist injunction to prevent all forms of genocide.
The phrase is widely used by politicians and writers and it also appears on many Holocaust memorials. It has also been appropriated as a political slogan for other causes, from commemoration of the 1976 Argentine coup, the promotion of gun control or abortion rights, and as an injunction to war on terror after the September 11 attacks.

Also this

Never again" is a phrase or slogan which is associated with the lessons of the Holocaust and other genocides.

@LetThereBeLove
"The Holocaust was the state-sponsored persecution and mass murder of millions of European Jews, Romani people, the intellectually disabled, political dissidents and homosexuals by the German Nazi regime between 1933 and 1945. "

Why do you take the history and memory away from other people who were similary the victims?

Exactly. The holocaust inversion bit is to equate this war however utterly horrible with the industrial, systematic attempt to eliminate the Jewish people in the Holocaust.

But that's not entirely true.

• Meaning
• The phrase has since been broadened to represent a universal goal to prevent future genocides.
• Examples
• The phrase is used in postwar German politics and in the work of international organizations. The European Commission, for example, calls for the preservation of Holocaust sites, but also for the active prevention of other genocides.

It can be used for the prevention of ALL genocides.

FFS stop telling Jewish people what 'never again' means. It HAS been appropriated as you say and that is why it is wrong to continue to appropriate it. I am sick and tired of you all. Some of us have lost our entire families thanks to a pretty thorough attempt at exterminating us almost 100 years ago. And now we have the worst antisemitism in my long 76 year lifetime.

How dare you? I lost my grandmother and other family members in the Holocaust. My mother escaped by the skin of her teeth. There has never before or since been an extermination of innocent people as there was for Jewish people.

I'm sorry but something isn't set in stone just because you say it it. And over the years 'never again' has been used for many atrocities

This was taken from a 2018 article from The Jerusalem Post

Never again’ becomes more than a slogan: It’s a prayer, a promise, a vow … never again the glorification of base, ugly, dark violence,” the Nobel laureate wrote in 2012.
Never Again is a phrase that keeps on evolving. It was used in protests against the Muslim ban and in support of refugees, in remembrance of Japanese internment during World War II and recalling the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882. And now the phrase is taking on yet another life: in the fight for gun control in America.

I'm sorry for your loss.
I will not discuss with you again.

Yes it doesn't but you are arguing and also trying to silence me that the phrase is only used for the holocaust and using it for any other genocide is wrong. That is your opinion but it is not a universal one and I don't think it warrants such hostility if one disagrees.

It is often seen as slogan to prevent ALL genocides from the lessons we take from the holocaust. As stated:

That’s similar to how the US Holocaust Memorial Museum uses the phrase. In choosing the name Never Again as the theme of its 2013 Days of Remembrance, its used the term as a call to study the genocide of the Jews in order to respond to the “warning signs” of genocides happening anywhere.

Although it's significance is linked strongly with the holocaust, it's usage over the years has also been to stand up for the prevention of other crimes and atrocities.

@LetThereBeLove I'm sorry. May their memories be a blessing.

You are always so fair and kind on MN. Most other posters, naming no names, could learn from you. Thank you.

This conversation is grotesque. Anyone who links gun control with the Holocaust has lost their mind.

You have just silenced me. Hope that makes you happy having minimised and infantilised the true, original meaning of never again

I did not do that unless you struggle with reading comprehension.

That quote was taken from The Jerusalem Post, the article discusses how the phrase has been used for different causes.

It may well have been used in the Jerusalem Post and you can argue until the cows come home but to the vast majority of Jewish people never again equates with our Holocaust. This is no way minimises any other genocide since eg Rwanda.

@Lolapusht
Those poor souls could get all the help they need if Hamas were to release them. What is it that prevents you from having that as your first thought?

It's unreasonable to expect Hamas to release the hostages in return for no more than a pledge from Israel that they will cease hostilities, should they do so. The hostages are virtually the only bargaining chip that Hamas have.
Whilst "Acting in a humane way" is certainly an argument for their unconditional release, this conflict has, tragically, gone way beyond humanitarian acts.
So, Hamas should return the hostages and just hope the that the Israelis will withdraw ?
Unrealistic.
It has to be the other way around and ................if Hamas don't come up with the hostages, Israel could start up again.

Exactly. Obviously the two words 'never' and 'again' have a simple meaning applicable to almost any situation.'never again' used in relation to the Holocaust relates to the Jewish people. Its not hard to understand, unless people don't want to.

I don't believe you are trying to minimise the Rwanda genocide but the term 'never again' was promised to the Rwandans years later. It was Netanyahu himself that said the same thing when he visited the Rwanda genocide memorial a few years ago. He drew parallels between the suffering of both people and the genocide they both suffered and said 'never again' to them.

The contemporary usage of the term is that 'never again' is for all people. That doesn't diminish the link to the holocaust or the suffering of the genocide of the Jewish people.

Millie1501 · Today 11:57
Mumsnet remove any comment that is reported, they do not read through them thoroughly.

Millie, that’s just not true. I’ve been here since the beginning, have reported multiple posts that I found distasteful, racist, anti-Semitic, Islamaphobic, homophobic, inaccurate, slanderous, you name it.
I have always received a reply from a named moderator explaining why the post in question has or has not been removed. Many have not been removed, much to my annoyance.

Good lord. The hostages should be released unconditionally. There is never an excuse for taking hostages.

Gosh! I've been here years as well and never reported a single post. I prefer them to stand and get most annoyed if a post attacking or insulting me personally get deleted.

Fair enough, Ken. I’d just rather not unnecessarily upset people,

Not sure what the “gosh” is for? seen it a lot lately.

Sometimes it seems by posters attempting to patronise others. Each to their own, I suppose.