Amsterdam

[EricInk]

I can't believe how unbalanced the media reporting is of the events last night

The maccabi fans were behaving atrociously and inciting conflict the entire day, pulling down flags, chanting 'fuck Palestine' and intimidating Dutch Arabs

If you have never heard of Red Pepper or Stop the War then you really don't know anything about the left in this country & you need to do some research, if you are going to expect people to listen to your prouncements about the left. And your reference to holocaust inversion is distasteful.

Ha. You called my opinion a typical lef-wing, I wasn't talking about the left. And now i 'need to do some research about the left' ? I'm talking about universal humanity and not some UK political spectrum.
My reference to holocaust?? No, Sharon, I'm talking about Palestinian children in 2024.

@SharonEllis I'm just pointing to reasons why people might pull down posters without actually being antisemitic. Maybe they hate Israel and feel that Muslim voices are erased.
There a cognitive dissonance at play here, people can see with their own eyes what Israel is doing even though the news on TV tells us everything is fine. Everything is not fine.
It's so harmful to Jews, Muslims, society as a whole.
We should call out violence and racism by Israelis, Muslims whoever.
But as I say, divide and conquer. That's not left wing forces at play.

Also@SharonEllis hell will freeze over before any government including the Uk or Israel sends more than #thoughtsandprayers to the hostages.
The IDF members are collateral, and lots of the older people were inconvenient left leaning or peace activists. It's a disgrace.

Actually, no that has not been widely 'openly admitted'. Some might have but I was in the Labour Party. It was very real. My goodness your understanding of left wing history is quite shallow & simplistic. You see A lOT of people on the left supporting discrimination & oppression. The union movement has a long history of racism & misogyny. Many on the left have supported oppression in the name of socialism & communism especially in Latin America. Right now there is a hierachy of oppression & a simplistic, didactic approach to decolonisation which is at the heart of the left's complete inability to understand antisemitism amd inabiloty to deal with free speech issues.

I’m really struggling to keep up with your ranting posts, but what about NGOs like the Red Cross? Do you expect them to do something?

Why is Hamas not on your list of disgraceful people who haven’t sent anything to the hostages.

You seem to be happy making sweeping statements against Israel but not others. And what do the hostages even have to do with what happened in Amsterdam?

You have a very simplistic view of “left” and “right” . People on the extreme of either left or right are bad news .

Yes, I know you were talking about Palestinians. That's the holocaust inversion. Your reference to 'never again' is a reference to the Holocaust. I wasn't referring to your opinion, I said Millie's summary (which you were responding to) was an accurate reflectoin of the broad views of the Left.

Oh dear. The hostages don't represent the Israeli government. To hold them (many of who were very opppsed to Netanyahu'd government) responsible for Israeli government action, especially in the context of the posters being put up by Jewish people here literally IS antisemitic.

@Lolapusht well I doubt Hamas will help the hostages they captured and NGOs are there to help where they can.
Sorry you can't follow my "ranting ". Maybe you are less cynical than me but those poor souls are unlikely to get any help while Bibi is avoiding his court case.

A Jewish organisation from Amsterdam has posted comment on their ig criticising the way the police handled the actions of the Israeli hooligans.

Why is the continued captivity of the hostages dependent on Netanyahu? Again with this narrative. You’re implying that the only reason the hostages haven’t been released is because of Netanyahu and nowhere do you even mention Hamas. This view has been evident all through this thread and is all too common across this site. Time and again, when discussing events it’s whatever Israel has done that is focused upon. I get that it’s not always possible to express sentiments clearly when writing, but it’s not helpful. A lot of what I post will seem one sided in favour of Israel because I never get to the end of thinking “Hang on, that’s not fair…” (I know I’ll probably get jumped on by people screaming “FAIR?! What about Gaza?”. They’re missing the point and I would absolutely engage with them if I thought it would do any good). This post is an excellent example of just that. Those poor souls could get al the help they need if Hamas were to release them. What is it that prevents you from having that as your first thought?

“Erev Rav is an Antizionist Jewish Collective based in the Netherlands.“
https://erevrav.nl/

I’m not excusing the Maccabi fans’ behaviour, but I wouldn’t say the source is likely to have a balanced/unbiased view on the situation, just because they are apparently a Jewish group, if they are specifically an antizionist organisation

I feel very much the same!! Particularly this,

A lot of what I post will seem one sided in favour of Israel because I never get to the end of thinking “Hang on, that’s not fair…” (I know I’ll probably get jumped on by people screaming “FAIR?! What about Gaza?”.

@Lolapusht if you don't know by now that Hamas offered Bibi the hostages last November you don't deserve a voice at the table.

And if you don’t know how many times Hamas has refused a deal since then you don’t deserve in the room, nevermind a seat at the table

I don't know how many times Hamas has refused a deal, so please tell me or give links.

All I know, is that on numerous occasions Hamas has refused to return the hostages because Israel has refused to guarantee a permanent ceasefire or withdrawal, were they to do so.

Anything else ?

@mouthpipette @Lolapusht if Bibi finds a solution to the situation he's in a world of trouble.
Will be interesting to see what Trump brings.
I'm no friend of Trump.

Pot kettle black. Honestly I don't think @Lolapusht is at the table but is certainly perfectly well informed enough to have a view on this thread. They could just release the hostages whether Netanyahu wants them or not fgs. Its their families that want them.

'Never again" refers to the Holocaust and other genocides. It can't be otherwise. Thinking about it - at the end of ww2 people say, yeah, "not THAT again, but anything similar in other places is absolutely fine"? Even this sentence is too crass, but I wanted the point to be clear. If we make it 'never again' for everyone - then we all are safe. If we narrow it down - then none are safe.
Currently, we are failing badly.

Well we can at least agree that your sentence is indeed crass.

I had hopes you do not think they way I wrote my crass sentence. Alas

If we make it 'never again' for everyone - then we all are safe. If we narrow it down - then none are safe.

I agree, I can't understand why anyone would object to this.

' Never again ' means to never again have a Holocaust of Jewish people. It has nothing to do with non Jews. I can't understand why non Jews do not understand this.

Never again refers back to the first - the Holocaust. Jeez. That's what gives it meaning.