How many more will Israel kill?

[Whatsinanamehey]

Nearly a 100 people reportedly killed in the north of Gaza today from a strike in Beit Lahia. Many of the dead are small children with some of the footage the most shocking I have seen. Dead children still trapped under the rubble and countless more injured. How can they continue to kill like this? How can this still be justified as self defence? How can such callous disregard for human life be condoned?

You can't just keep brushing over the destruction of Gaza and slaughter of innocent civilians as "getting rid of Hamas" on the way to a peace process though. Even if the IDF manage to kill every Hamas member, do you think that Gaza having absolutely no infrastructure left, whole family lines wiped out and the surviving civilians left with whatever health conditions, disabilities and trauma from months of starvation and untreated medical problems is a starting point for peace?

What do you mean by getting rid of? The top commanders have already been killed. Their leadership has been destroyed. There are many military experts who believe significant damage has been done for them to no longer operate as they once did. What else do you want? Kill off every single member? That's impossible
At this stage rather than focusing on removing whatever little is left of Hamas, the focus should be on empowering the moderate voices who can replace them. I personally think you are looking at it in a very black and white way that is unrealistic.

I think a halt to military activities is a good place to start for peace yes... the current situation is what it is, no? We can't rewind time and start from 6 October, can we? We can only start with a razed Gaza can't we? Or do you think they shouldn't even try?

Can you answer my specific questions about Hamas?

I should add that is impossible without killing most of the men in Gaza as Israel views most as terrorists. How many have been recruited during the course of the war? How does Israel even know at this stage who is and who isn't. You can never fully remove a group like Hamas.

@dairydebris your words carry the same sentiments and aspirations as Netanyahu's 'Total Victory' whether intentional or not.
What there needs to be is an urgent ceasefire, that is the best chance the hostages have and it is in the best interests of both Israelis and Palestinians.

Fair points.
How about this guy, Khalil al-Hayya?
Did you see the BBC interview a few weeks ago? He's pretty high up, and still denying 7 October and Israel's right to exist in Israel.
Perhaps he could speak for the rest of his Hamas brothers, surrender, give back the hostages, agree that the land can be shared...

I actually would prefer to see them all rot in jail than be killed and risk creating martyrs.

But do you think Israel should cease fire and allow him to be in charge of a Palestinian state on its borders? Should Israel negotiate with him?

Or do you think they should surrender, give back hostages, etc etc?

Then peace process start?

OK. So you think Israel should cease fire. Who should they negotiate with during the peace process?

Who did they negotiate with for the last ceasefire that took place?

I dont know. Would you like me to research that before you answer any of my questions about how Israel should deal with Hamas?

The alternative that you are proposing is an endless perpetual cycle of violence. If it was doable to fully get rid of Hamas, don't you think Israel would have managed it by now? What is left to destroy of Gaza? Maybe they have missed a hospital or two apart from the countless ones they have bombed, but what else?

I already said what I think. How much more clearer do I have to be.

I think there has to be an acceptance from Israel that they don't get to choose who is in charge of what should be a sovereign state. Palestinians having a state means that they get self determination and Israel don't get to control them anymore. I understand that that is a scary thought for some Israelis but it has to happen at some point if peace ever stands a chance.

Do you think Palestinians like the Israeli government? Do you think hearing their ministers calling for a nakba and talking about eliminating them all is what they would choose? Do you think that Israelis coming for innocent Palestinians under the protection of the government, which they do every day(there was 3 incidences of settler violence towards Palestinians every day of 2023 prior to Oct 7) is what Palestinians should have to put up with?

What innocents on both sides have had to endure is awful but when does Israels meddling stop? What if they don't like the next government or the one after that? If Israel get to pick Palestinians government do they get to pick Israels because the idea is that they are both equal after all.

I don't think Hamas should be in power but if removing them means that Gaza has to be destroyed and it has been and 2million people are left severely traumatised without anything left for them to live for then no I don't think getting rid of Hamas should come first.

Are you going to answer any of my questions?
Again straw man. I am not proposing an endless cycle of violence. I am not proposing Israel kill every last Hamas pos. I even said, I'd prefer they rot in jail.
I'm proposing Hamas surrender, give back hostages and walk back their absolute refusal to admit the right of Isreal to exist.

Then the peace process, hopefully towards a 2ss can start. Both groups have a claim on the land.

Everyone here is calling for Israeli ceasefire.
I'm calling for Hamas surrender.

Both end the war.

For the 6th time. Should Isreal negotiate with Hamas?

I agree 💯 with this point about empowering moderate voices . I think we need moderate voices on both sides. It’s very difficult for people to be reasonable and moderate when they feel very afraid so there needs to be a real feeling of security (for both sides) so that moderation can thrive.

There's no one to negotiate with anymore, Sinwar knew where all the hostages were and he's dead after replacing Haniyeh.

True to form and keeping to their modus operandi over the 70+ years the IDF have killed all the people with authority, so there will be no negotiations.

Right now just like in Lebanon, it's America and Israel negotiating between themselves then offering terms that they know will be rejected. For example demanding Lebanon disarm and the IDF retain the authority to bomb it anytime they see fit.

Unfortunately, it's going to be more war.

See my post above. There is still leadership and they're still denying 7 Oct and the right of Israel to exist.

Yes ofcourse! Please take your head out the sand in the nicest way possible. How did you think most of the hostages were freed. If Hamas is holding the hostages do you think Israel should negotiate with the PLO??
Do you even understand how negotiations work at a very basic level?
Both sides put forward their proposals. If Hamas demands a total cessation of hostilities including ending the war and the IDF withdrawal of Gaza then Israel demand that Hamas steps down and hands over the leadership of Gaza to so and so. Ceasefire negotiations doesn't just mean stop fighting.

There's no one to negotiate with anymore, Sinwar knew where all the hostages were and he's dead after replacing Haniyeh.

This 100%. If Netanyahu gave a shit about the hostages he would have atleast negotiated their release with the leaders of the group who hold them before killing them off.

You know the reason Palestinians in Gaza don't get to choose their government? It's because Hamas doesn't run elections. It's because Hamas murders it's political opponents.

You know who does get to vote for their government? The Palestinian Israelis in Israel proper.

I have to go now but I'm still yet to get a straight answer on whether or not Israel should negotiate with Hamas.

And I can't believe not one person is agreeing that Hamas' surrender and release of hostages should come first... it walks like a duck.

@dairydebris I did answer your question.

Your suggestion is not workable.
Hamas was a military AND a political force in Gaza. Israel was negotiating with Hamas, who else could they? But then Israel did not agree on the conditions and assassinated the person they were negotiating with. In Tehran of all places.
Not to mention none of us have any decision power, your question is now pointless. Israel showed to everyone that they do not want to negotiate.
Any other side would be out of their mind to even try to negotiate with the current Israeli government as you cannot trust their word.

As for removing Hamas - the problem existed before Hamas, so the root problem is not hamas. Palestinians need their own contiguous state.

This. Hamas are choosing for this to continue by not only holding hostages to Ransome but also dead corpses as hostages too.

You don't understand at all. Your posts are steeped in the belief that Israelis come first not that both are two equal parties and that belief seems to be so deep that you don't even properly comprehend what posters are saying to you.

Your post makes very little sense in relation to mine because of that and discussion with you won't be productive.

Another false misconception that is often found on these boards is that remove Hamas and on the other side remove Netanyahu. It is not just Netanyahu that is the problem, removing Netanyahu doesn't automatically remove all the other racists in the Israeli government. Just this week another MK stated in the Israeli knesset that
"there are no such thing as innocent people in Gaza".
They went on to say that Palestinian children as young as three and four are trained to be murderers and that
"They raise an entire generation of nazis"

The evil, vile woman then also said that Palestinian children from the age of ZERO are turned into murderers, martyrs and Nazis.