Israel invades Lebanon

[Lalaloveya]

Israel begins ground offensive against Hezbollah in Lebanon | AP News

I mean we all saw it coming but it's still shocking.

God help all the innocents whose lives will be ruined by this, or ended.

No I don't acknowledge anything, just that I didn't claim it was "out there".

And I think the accusation is false as there's never anything to back it up.

What a strange equivalence.

I don’t believe Russia has ever fired rockets into the UK for a year, killed 12 school children and displaced almost 100,000 people from their homes in support of a terrorist government who invaded the UK and committed horrific atrocities killing over a thousand UK citizens and taking hundreds hostage. Did they? Must have missed that.

You must have conveniently missed that Hezbollah have been doing exactly that in Israel.

The Lebanese Ambassador to the UK didn’t seem to have an issue with it on the TV interview with Piers Morgan the other day and the Lebanese Government haven’t done anything about it despite rockets being fired from their country for a year!

Surely they have a responsibility to protect their citizens from a large terrorist group operating from their country, participating in a war with a neighbouring one?

Or can any country allow a terrorist group to imbed itself in their country, terrorise and murder their own civilians, murder civilians in neighbouring countries, fire rockets into neighbouring countries and say ‘nowt to do with us, we won’t deal with them and the country they’re raining down explosives shouldn’t be allowed deal with them either, they should just suck it up because they’re Jews so who cares anyway’.

Unbelievable!

I didn't realise questions needed to be backed up.

Well when you're making accusations about other posters it's probably best that they have some truth/evidence behind them.

But it’s ok to call posters aggressive without evidence?

Yes I think it's OK to have an opinion about a poster's style. Many people have an opinion about mine and I think that's OK. You can obviously disagree with that. It's just an opinion.

I think your style is goady and inflammatory

Its incredibly boring and counterproductive.

What accusations have I made that you feel need further backing up?

I wish you'd make your mind up about what exactly you dislike me so much for so we could stop going around in circles like this.

Good for you.

And also tiresome because it seems self centred and distracts from a really important topic

The entire point of the conversation we're having re people making posts that won't be checked etc.

So you're back to wanting me to back up my question to a poster?

So I've already answered this question. Usually accusations have something behind them, yes.

Now we're bothering other posters with this nonsense so I'm not going to continue the derailment.

Hi all,

Can we please ask that you keep posts civil, avoid making personal attacks and try to keep the thread on track? Posts that further derail below this, may result in a temporary suspension.

Please continue to report anything that you feel breaks our talk guidelines.

Re: not an attack on Jews as such.

Without remembering the exact details, I think Hamas came upon the Nova Music festival unexpectedly and had not planned that attack in advance. (Its original date had been moved or something like that.)

I am sure the Hamas/other Palestinian opportunistic terrorists thought of the people there as “them” “ those Israelis” in general. But watching the BBC commissioned documentary on the weekend and seeing how Western the festival seemed, it may have been that the massacre might not just have been an unleashing of the terrorists’ hate on Israelis per se ( there were other nationalities there too if they ever noticed) but an attack on all the things the terrorists are not allowed and which they have to suppress: youthful fun, drugs, drinking, dancing, getting into a trance, free love and so on. So in that sense it would not have mattered if they were Jewish or any other group.

It seems the whole festival was ‘other’ to them as they ran amok carrying out the massacre.

This is why I think Noa Argami dancing in her yellow bikini at a festival when she had been freed was her resistance to the evil of that massacre. It stood for everything the terrorists had tried to kill at the Nova Music Festival.

Eight Israeli soldiers were killed today, and it hasn't been long since the invasion. Will Israel pull back if this continues? Will there be a push from the Israeli and Lebanese people that their leaders should negotiate a ceasefire?

But they planned attacks on people in Israel. Who they came across in the process is irrelevant to the overall intention.

Yes, I agree absolutely, but do also feel they may have used hate for what the festival represented as extra fuel and for carrying out their brutality.

A question I was wondering: If Israel had not been (mainly) Jewish but, say, mainly Western/European over the last 70 years and had done everything exactly the same way Israel has over that time, step by step the same, do you think Hamas would still have wanted to carry out their terror attack? I do not know the answer, but would have thought the answer was yes. Or do Hamas and Iran hold a more vicious intention towards specifically Jewish people over any other non-Muslim enemies?

The occupation and brutalisation of people in Palestine is important context. I'm not justifying the attack last October - it was obviously completely unjustifiable and heinous beyond words, but on these boards some posters completely ignore it, or even deny it when talking about the entire decades-long conflict.

I think the answer is that until it became a specifically Jewish country, no one cared about what the land was actually called. They just lived there and didn't care who was in charge. I mean that in a good way - they just got on with life and it didn't make a difference to them. I mean, how many different rulers had there been over the centuries?

I think if it hadn't been specifically a Jewish state, the surrounding countries wouldn't have attacked in the first place and therefore we wouldn't be where we are now. We wouldn't have had the history we have.

Sorry, that was for @ScrollingLeaves
Oh and by 'they' I mean normal people who lived in the area! Not Hamas or other terrorist groups.

Good point, and I am guilty too.

Yes. Its obviously not immaterial that Israel was a Jewish state. You only have to look at the treatment of Jewish across the middle east.

Bbc

The Lebanese army says one of its soldiers was killed, and another injured, when they were hit by Israeli forces in southern Lebanon.
The incident happened as the army and Lebanese Red Cross were evacuating casualties from the village Al Taybeh, the army says.
We'll bring you more details about this incident as we get them.