Israel invades Lebanon

[Lalaloveya]

Israel begins ground offensive against Hezbollah in Lebanon | AP News

I mean we all saw it coming but it's still shocking.

God help all the innocents whose lives will be ruined by this, or ended.

Or you could see it as the removal of Islamist terrorists hell bent on Israel's destruction ?

Let's hope civilian casualties are kept to a minimum though ....

Sure. I expect to hear a good many euphemisms for the invasion today.

God help the innocents being deliberately used as human shields by the murderous Islamist gangsters of Hezbollah. Many will die.
Hamas is very nearly wiped out; Hezbollah is next. The Israelis have struck two mighty blows against them, with the booby trapped pagers and the killing of Nasrallah, and they are only just getting going.
Finally, the West will have to confront and destroy Iran. Then the Middle East can have peace.

A Palestinian refugee camp has just been bombed in Lebanon. It's abhorrent

This is so upsetting. It is clear that nobody is making any attempt to stop Israel. It is also clear that Israel will stop at nothing. This is very worrying when we consider what Israel has access to. Thankfully Iran has been showing restraint. It almost seems like Israel is baiting them though... to what end?

This is just horrific. I feel sick for those poor people

Well of course it has!

This is not wiping out terrorists, it’s creating more. Lunacy and mass murder!

So on the one hand, on one active thread on here we have people questioning why Israel 'let' October 7th happen and why didn't they listen to those warning of the attack? Why didn't they do more to stop it? On the other hand we have this thread where people are upset because Israel isn't letting another October 7th happen and are listening to those warning of an attack and doing more to stop it.

So I'm wondering what exactly you want Israel to do? Because it seems either way, you'll find a way to blame Israel instead of holding terrorists solely responsible for planning these heinous acts in the first place.

Please think about what I've said before replying. I understand you're upset about the seemingly inevitable loss of innocent lives, as am I. I just don't understand what people expect Israel to do. I know I'll get generic "well, not commit war crimes to start with" but that's not helpful seeing as a lot of you consider anything Israel does a war crime as they shouldn't be in Lebanon in the first place, they shouldn't have attacked the pagers, it was apparently also a war crime to target Haniyeh etc etc so I'm not interested in what you want Israel not to do, I want to know what you think they should be doing in order to swiftly get rid of all the terrorists but also spare innocent lives on both sides of the border.

Oh and before you suggest negotiations, maybe do a bit of reading to first find out how negotiating with genocidal terrorists like Hezbollah and Hamas usually go. In one of the ceasefire negotiations this past year, Hamas were trying to negotiate that they would essentially be allowed to murder some of the hostages in cold blood before returning them. But that's obviously just one example, feel free to look up more of your own.

Yep it's going to be another Gaza, and no doubt there will be so called "safe zones" which then promptly get bombed. 😡

That's a huge worry. They literally got away with genocide in Gaza and not only did the west not try to stop them, but they supported them and armed them. It's obscene. I hope to God this doesn't last long. I can hardly bear to follow it, so it's incomprehensible what the ordinary people there are going through.

It's not genocide. Please learn about the region and it's peoples.

Do you think that invading a hornets nest is going to work out well for Israel? After all the UKs invasion of Iraq led to extremists blowing up tubes and buses and the USs interference in the middle east, led to 11/9. Let's not mention the current state of Afghanistan.

Whoever Israel kill will be replaced because there are many indoctrinated extremists willing to take over. As we saw in the case of Saddam Hussein, power vacuums often don't lead to desirable results.

The 7/10 attacks could be attributed to the occupation of Gaza and the way the Palestinians have been treated. That's not to say that there aren't states that want to get rid off Israel but the decades long treatment of the Palestinians means Israel doesn't have clean hands.

The destruction of Gaza, the death of tens of thousands of innocent people including children, has been abhorrent and included clear crimes against humanity yet Israel has many supporters who are cheering on more destruction. In fact the US is supporting them but the US is rarely on the right side of history.

So no attempt at answering my question, just more "but really it's Israel's fault for existing in the first place"?

Do you think Israel should have just let Hezbollah go ahead with their October 7th style attack then? Would that have been your preferred option?

And supporting Israel's right to exist is not the same as "cheering on more destruction" - that's just you having dehumanised 'the other side' to the point that you think that's all we're capable of. It's not ok.

Western hypocrisy on full display here, Israel has just invaded a sovereign nation and nobody bats an eyelid.

You're ignoring the points brought up in my post. What about Palestine's right to exist or the civilians currently being killed in Lebanon and the rights of those displaced? Aren't their lives worth anything? It's not ok.

I think at this stage you have to try really really hard to see Israel's actions as self defense in response to a shock attack on October 7th. Yet another humanitarian disaster on the way whilst the West watches on.

Seeing as I'm all for a two state solution and have previously compared violent illegal settlers to terrorists, it's pretty pathetic and obscene for you to be trying to insinuate I don't care about Palestinians.

Your lack of answer to my question has been noted. It's not surprising because it's an impossible situation, I just wish you'd acknowledge that.

For some reason Israel gets a free pass 🤔

Then the Middle East can have peace.

///

So I'm wondering what exactly you want Israel to do? @ Humdingerydoo

The answer is really very simple and it is; withdraw from Gaza, stop provoking Hezbollah and Iran, pull out the settlers from the west bank and then sit down and start to negotiate the release of Hostages and a way forward for Palestinians and Israelis to live without violence.
In an attempt to pre-empt your responses.

1. “They’ll do another October 7” . A repeat of October would not happen if Israel were to line up its armour on its borders and also to listen to its intelligence.
2. “They’ll pummel us with rockets” The rockets that Hamas launch are really of no consequence. Their effects are exaggerated in order to justify Israeli aggression. They are nearly all unguided, carry a small payload and cause very few fatalities. For Israel they are an expensive annoyance. Hezbollah does possess more sophisticated ballistic missiles, and they are a threat, but they have not used them and are unlikely to do so, unless they are attacked, which is what is happening at the moment. Remember it is Israel that has escalated the situation on its northern border, not Hezbollah. Up until recently the two protagonists were simply trading artillery fire across the border, because up until a fortnight ago, neither side wanted to get embroiled in a full scale war.
3. “They pose an “existential threat” to Israel” is yet another exaggeration used to justify Israeli aggression. Compare the military capabilities of Hamas and Hezbollah with that of Israel and that will be immediately apparent. The same argument applies to non-nuclear Iran.
4. “Hamas wants to eradicate all Jews” . Even if it were true, I doubt if they could get anywhere near to achieving this, as there are well over 15 million Jews in the world and only a few thousand members of Hamas. Yet another fallacious argument.
5. “You cannot negotiate with terrorists.” Well the release of hostages in November proved that you can. You’ll also find that over the decades there have been a number of agreements between the protagonists in this conflict that you don’t get to hear about.
6. “You’re an antisemite”. No I’m not.

I was a supporter of Israel in the 67 war and the Yom Kippur war and those were times when there was a very real threat to the country’s existence. But since then I have seen Israel act with increasing belligerence and increasing disregard for humanity. It’s not totally to blame, the US, with its very tenuous relationships with a number of middle eastern countries has always regarded Israel as its only dependable ally in the region. Hence its unequivocal support. Israel knows this and has played upon it. I’m sure that just now it is measuring carefully the amount of opprobrium being aired by its western allies in order to calibrate just how far it can go before the west says “enough is enough”.

So that’s what Israel should do now.
What it should have done October 8th is line up it’s armour on the border and started to negotiate the release of the hostages and then moved on to negotiate the west bank. Its foray into Gaza has been a disaster and anything else would have been better.
Israel’s greatest misfortune since 1973 is that it had Netanyahu as its leader on October 7th 2023.

For you it's impossible to have a discussion without name calling and personal attacks. For Israel it appears impossible to stop attacking other countries or abiding by international law.

The solution is to help rebuild Gaza, supply humanitarian aid and stop the illegal occupation.

This is actually a really interesting response because you genuinely seem convinced by what you're saying. The reality is very, very different though. You have really, really extreme views, so I'm not really sure where to even start to be honest. Hopefully some of the more moderate anti-Israel posters will be along soon to acknowledge that your post is too extreme even for them.

Lebanon has fired 8000 missiles at another sovereign country over the last year. Causus belli if there ever was

If you feel like it was a personal attack you can in good conscience report my comment for breaking talk guidelines.

However, since I didn't actually resort to personal attacks and you're just unfairly accusing me of things again I think this conversation ends here.

And your solution not even referencing the hostages means that's obviously not a viable option.