How the hell did the Israeli's mange to cause the exploding pagers?

[mids2019]

Just this is really ...how did they do it? Was this the secret service on steroids?

Interesting take from an Irish politician- the Israelis are worse than the Nazis apparently (not sure why he would leap to that particular comparison). But I'm sure he's a proud anti-colonialist and definitely not an antisemite.

Israel are breaking International law by illegally occupying. I didn't say they were breaking the law by not listening to UNGA. I'm sure you agree it is vile to support illegal occupation and apartheid.

They are also terrorists.

As I said, the occupation isn't illegal under international law because it was territory that was occupied during a defensive war started by the Arabs.

The UN was created at the end of the Second World War. The Allied powers were hardly likely to create international law that immediately ruled their occupation of Germany to be illegal, were they?

You're just repeating propaganda as fact.

@Thisoldthang i believe you are misinformed. The ICJ have ruled that the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories is illegal under international law. This isn't propaganda even if you disagree with the ruling.

You can read it from the direct source here:

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/07/experts-hail-icj-declaration-illegality-israels-presence-occupied

And here

The landmark ruling of 19 July 2024 declared that Israel’s occupation of the Gaza strip and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, is unlawful, along with the associated settlement regime, annexation and use of natural resources. The Court added that Israel's legislation and measures violate the international prohibition on racial segregation and apartheid. The ICJ mandated Israel to end its occupation, dismantle its settlements, provide full reparations to Palestinian victims and facilitate the return of displaced people.

It's an absolute tragedy but It's her fathers fault isn't it, he didn't have to be a terrorist one assumes. Or in being a terrorist he accepted the risk.

The ICJ, just like the UNGA, can only make 'advisory' rulings and they are non-binding.

Yes you are right. I will remove my post.
The 'advisory opinion' however, still holds significant weight.

And this was taken from the UN human rights website. So not something I just made up.

I think you'll find they also have rules about personal attacks, which this is. Accuse me all you want, but I am not being goady. If anything, you're being goady.

You're actually more concerned about an emoji than you are the issue at hand. Do you see how ridiculous that is?

However I can see the echo chamber has responded and you're not the only one upset by the emoji, so I will try to refrain from using them.

Whatever the legalities, the occupation is wrong - anyone even vaguely neutral can see that - everyone should have the right to self determination

anyone in the vicinity of a pager explosion could have been injured or terrorised by the event - footage shows people running away in terror in supermarkets etc - so the ordinary people of Lebanon deserve to be terrorised? It’s state executed terrorism

Do northern Republicans not have links with Palestinians? Especially of the illegal kind

I am assuming you mean Republican terrorists as opposed to law abiding republican citizens of Northern Ireland. This distinction is extremely important as there was a time people, including the British police and army, assumed every Catholic in NI was a terrorist.

Yes Republican terrorists have associations with terrorist organisations elsewhere

Ahh so because children of terrorists want revenge that means Israel can’t defend themselves.

Out of interest, what do you think would happen if Israel just withdrew unilaterally, tomorrow, from the West Bank? Like they did in Gaza...

I want the occupation to end. It was always meant to be temporary following the 6 day war, not a permanent situation. I want the Palestinians to have their own state and their own self determination.

But, realistically, in the absence of a meaningful peace process how is taht going to happen? Israel just withdrawing without security guarntees would be suicidal. We've seen what happened with Gaza - the West Bank border is way way longer and harder to control. And with Lebanon too. And with Iran setting up proxies wherever they can? It's a ridiculous ICJ ruling/advisory or whatever because it doesn't provide a process but just an unrealistic demand. Even if it were legally binding, it makes no sense without, again, any kidn of process and negotiations.

Well if you already know everything why are you repeatedly asking me?

You can assume what you like. It actually doesn't matter where I'm from because you obviously know better than me either way.

@Lalaloveya Perhaps my lived experience of antisemitism is different to yours? Perhaps my feelings about the way Jews were abandoned to their fate in Europe (and no country did very much to help them with Ireland quite high at the top of those doing nothing) run deeper than yours?

I have nothing against individual Irish people and this issue of anti semitism wrapped up in anti zionism isn't unique to Ireland. But I do find the hypocrisy quite sickening when people seem to be proud of Ireland's stance as some of moral authority

So, in the space of a few posts we've moved from 'it's an illegal occupation' and 'Israel are in breach of international law' to No True Scotsman arguments that 'anyone even vaguely neutral can see that' 'the occupation is wrong'.

Given that the occupation isn't actually illegal under international law, why do you think you know better than the experts that created those laws and why do you seek to set aside international law, falling back to your own arbitrary definition of right and wrong, when you don't get the result you want?

Sure, but you're completely disregarding the lived experience many Irish people in terms of occupation, army brutality and war in the north. It's very relevant to Irish people's view of the Palestinian situation. I object to your framing of it as just stemming from antisemitism.

Not at all. But if it's some army brutality and occupation experience then there are far worse cases in the world than Palestine which Ireland doesn't seem particularly concerned about. It also ties in with a very ugly antisemitic history too. I mean, this experience of brutality didn't lead Ireland to take in any Jewish refugees in WW2.

Perhaps my lived experience of antisemitism is different to yours? Perhaps my feelings about the way Jews were abandoned to their fate in Europe (and no country did very much to help them with Ireland quite high at the top of those doing nothing

Ireland made a state apology to the Jewish community and has attempted to atone for mistakes made in the past. I think it is unfair to keep beating us with that stick.

The Holocaust Remembered
Each year, Holocaust Education Trust Ireland organises a National Holocaust Memorial Day commemoration with the support of the Irish government. At the first commemoration ceremony in 2003, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Michael Mc Dowell TD formally acknowledged the State and society’s failings “Whether by tolerating social discrimination, or by failing to offer refuge to those who sought it, or by failing to confront those who openly or covertly offered justification for the prejudice and race-hatred which led to the Shoah.”

The Holocaust is reflected today in Irish literature, music and the arts. As a subject, it is addressed in the secondary school curriculum.

https://jewishmuseum.ie/jews-of-ireland/ireland-the-holocaust/

https://www.holocausteducationireland.org/ireland-and-the-holocaust#:~:text=Many%20Holocaust%20survivors%20arrived%20in,to%20Irish%20life%20and%20culture.