Has enough been done to tackle incitement to genocide?

[Scirocco]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cze5w2wd4x0o

@Miffylou I certainly don't think their response should have been genocide.

I think they should have negotiated a hostage exchange. Let's not forget Israel holds thousands of Palestinians without charge in horrendous conditions.

Surely you don't think bombing churches, mosques, hospitals, schools, heck even their own hostages was a justifiable response?

I won't even get into the fact that the IDF seems to think a justified response is sniping children in the head....

No, I think not wanting there to be a Jewish state is quite a controversial opinion. Answer being Jewish is not just a religion.

I think if murderers and rapists choose to situate themselves in, or in tunnels directly beneath, churches, mosques, hospitals and schools, then they can’t complain when civilians get hurt. And of course Hamas don’t complain - they are on record repeatedly saying they welcome the "martyrdom" of Gazan civilians. (They say it from their hotels abroad and Gazan tunnels, of course, hoping to be safe themselves.)

You think it’s a good idea to reward kidnappers, rapists and murderers by negotiating with them. I don’t. It just encourages them to carry out more murders and kidnaps so they have more ammunition for emotional blackmail. The sort of emotional blackmail they are currently engaging in, by murdering in cold blood six hostages held in captivity for nearly a year, when it seemed that they were near being rescued, and threatening to murder more if their demands aren’t met.

I don’t agree with Israel's policy of holding people without charge, but prisoners released by Israel in previous exchanges were not innocent civilians kidnapped from their homes. In fact one of them was Yahya Sinwar, the current leader of Hamas and reported mastermind of the October rapes, massacre and abductions. Ironically, his life had been saved by treatment in an Israeli hospital for a potentially fatal brain tumour.

It is beyond my understanding how anyone (other than the anguished relatives of the hostages) can think it is a good idea to reward people like that by agreeing to their demands.

Time pointed out that "Hamas is not and has never been interested in compromise, unlike their rival, the Palestinian Authority run by Mahmound Abbas which governs much of the West Bank but not in Gaza. Many in the Palestinian Authority were said to welcome a Saudi peace plan as well the offer of financial assistance to improve the lives of Palestinians before Hamas sabotaged those plans Saturday."

Look what happened. Netanyhu did everything in his power to weaken the Palestinian Authority by bolstering Hamas. He did not want a compromise with Palestinians. He did not want a two state solution.

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from
The Times of Israel
www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Who cares if Hamas complains about civilians being "hurt" - read tens of thousands of civilians being killed, maimed and displaced. The fact that it happens is what's wrong about it. And Israel is deliberately bombing civilians. There's very little evidence of these supposed command centres where Israel bombs hospitals and schools. And even if there was, Israel still shouldn't bomb places full of civilians. This is really basic stuff. They're bombing displaced people and destroying civilian infrastructure in order to destroy Gaza and its people.

I don’t agree with Israel's policy of holding people without charge.

So what would you be OK with Palestinians doing to get their people back? You are OK with Israel bombing civilian areas, destroying infrastructure and healthcare in Gaza to get their people back, what is your red line for Palestinians getting their people back? How far can they go to rescue their children who are tortured and abused whilst held in Israeli detention without charge?

So according to you, all Hamas or any other murderer needs to do to be safe from attack is to situate themselves in civilian areas. OK…

Who cares if Hamas complains or just regards the poor Gazan civilians as ammunition in their propaganda campaign, as "martyrs" whether or not they choose to be? I expect the Gazans being used by Hamas as battle fodder, just as Hamas knew they would be, care!

@Miffylou It is beyond my understanding how anyone (other than the anguished relatives of the hostages) can think it is a good idea to reward people like that by agreeing to their demands.

It is called negotiations. And I suppose you have missed the hundreds of thousands in Israel who are demanding their government to negotiate a deal and have been doing so since the start of the war.

When you say "children", are you referring to youths arrested while throwing or catapulting rocks at people?

What children have been abused or tortured in Israeli custody? I’m not denying that there might be isolated incidents of prisoner mistreatment by bad-apple guards, but I have not seen any verified reports of torture or abuse of children.

When you say "children", are you referring to youths arrested while throwing or catapulting rocks at people?
If only they were arrested many are shot and killed. I can provide links to evidence of this but there are many so would take a while you might be best googling yourself if you want to find out more

I’m not denying that there might be isolated incidents of prisoner mistreatment by bad-apple guards, but I have not seen any verified reports of torture or abuse of children.
Not isolated endemic

www.savethechildren.net/news/stripped-beaten-and-blindfolded-new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-and-abuse-palestinian#

Yes, it’s wrong and I condemn such treatment. But as I suspected, these are teenage boys who were throwing rocks or similarly choosing to engage violently with Israelis. They are not young children shot in their cots or burnt to death in their homes or kidnapped for no reason at all other than their nationality, like the ones murdered or abducted last October.

Are you being serious, what children have been tortured and abused in Israeli custody? Save the Children reported that 86 percent of children are beaten in Israeli detention, while 69 percent are strip-searched and 42 percent are subject to injuries during their arrests.

Israeli's are not safe. Hamas have vowed to repeat October 7th. Hamas & Hezbollah are continuing to fire rockets, terrorist attacks within Israel continue, Iran attacked. Of course it is not the scale of Israel's offensive & the Iron dome is pretty effective but Israelis are not safe.

Ah I see you just don't care. It's wrong but....

@SababaToo how do you all think the last round of negotiations were done??

They are not young children shot in their cots or burnt to death in their homes or kidnapped for no reason at all other than their nationality, like the ones murdered or abducted last October.
I don't understand why you are comparing the two here. You suggested you didn't know that children were being abused in Israeli prisons I gave you evidence that they were. We don't know what many of the children in Israeli prisons have done because they have been charged with any crime yet

You would prefer an endless war it seems.

I am comparing the two because @TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree was suggesting that the October abductions, rapes and murders were a reasonable way to get back the Palestinian "children" she said were being abused and tortured in Israeli custody.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2015/7/31/palestinian-baby-burned-to-death-in-settler-attack

This baby was burnt to death in their own home. What you red line here?

Killed playing on the beach, what's your red line here?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/11/israel-clears-military-gaza-beach-children

Autistic man going to school, shot and killed, what's your red line here?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-66121267.amp

Snipers killing children hanging laundry on their roof, what's your red line here?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-66121267.amp

I didn't suggest it was reasonable. I asked you what you thought would be a reasonable way to get Palestinian children back as you think extreme violence is ok to get Israelis back. And lots of Palestinian children are held without charge, are not given a lawyer or a fair trial and 85% of them are abused while this happens. Personally I think it should all have been done around a table a long, long time ago. I don't agree with the extreme violence of Hamas and I don't agree with the extreme violence of Israel.