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Conflict in the Middle East

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Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:40

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 04/09/2024 12:33

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2015/7/31/palestinian-baby-burned-to-death-in-settler-attack

This baby was burnt to death in their own home. What you red line here?

Killed playing on the beach, what's your red line here?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/11/israel-clears-military-gaza-beach-children

Autistic man going to school, shot and killed, what's your red line here?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-66121267.amp

Snipers killing children hanging laundry on their roof, what's your red line here?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-66121267.amp

Isolated incidents by illegal settlers or trigger-happy soldiers are not the same as carefully planned and executed cold-blooded mass murder, rape and abduction, which has been planned and authorised by a ruling government.

Lettherebejustice · 04/09/2024 12:42

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TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 04/09/2024 12:42

If you are saying that what is happening in Gaza is fine because Hamas killed children then what do you think is ok for Palestinians to do when their babies and children are killed? How do you think Palestinians should react to their home being burnt and their baby killed? To their children being killed whilst playing or doing chores? What reaction would you be OK with considering their children have been horrifically killed? It's fine for Israel to dismantle healthcare, starve children, kill 2% of the population when their children are killed. It's fine for Palestinians to do what when their children are killed?

TheOnlyCherryOnMyTree · 04/09/2024 12:45

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:40

Isolated incidents by illegal settlers or trigger-happy soldiers are not the same as carefully planned and executed cold-blooded mass murder, rape and abduction, which has been planned and authorised by a ruling government.

Edited

Oh it's different? Living with the constant threat of 'isolated incidents' of your children being killed, that's fine, it only happens once in while, what are they so bothered about, right? Bearing in mind these are 4 'isolated incidents' I pulled from a 2 min google search and there is almost certainly a lot more...

Lettherebejustice · 04/09/2024 12:47

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:40

Isolated incidents by illegal settlers or trigger-happy soldiers are not the same as carefully planned and executed cold-blooded mass murder, rape and abduction, which has been planned and authorised by a ruling government.

Edited

It is not isolated incidents as you like to claim. It is an everyday reality. And the cruel treatment of detainees Is state sanctioned under the authority of Ben Gvir and the Netanyahu government.

SababaToo · 04/09/2024 13:02

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Scirocco · 04/09/2024 13:02

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:40

Isolated incidents by illegal settlers or trigger-happy soldiers are not the same as carefully planned and executed cold-blooded mass murder, rape and abduction, which has been planned and authorised by a ruling government.

Edited

Isolated incidents warrant condemnation and interventions to prevent them happening again. Systematic targeting of children, authorisation of the use of sniper fire against children who pose no realistic risk of harm, the use of children as human shields by armed soldiers, the torture and sexual abuse of children in detention centres, etc really should be unacceptable regardless of the ethnicity of the children.

Soldiers are authorised and even specifically ordered to shoot children. Soldiers have confirmed that they were given orders to do so. The patterns of gunshot wounds on child trauma victims in Palestine is highly consistent with this being a standard military tactic, to target children specifically and repeatedly.

I've been the first person through a door in an unpredictable situation where you don't know if there's a weapon on the other side. It's kind of scary as an adult with a degree of experience. It would be terrifying for a child. Using child human shields to go door to door is horrendous. It's a form of torture, really, to put a child through that.

Children in detention centres have not necessarily done anything wrong, and even if they had, even if they had definitely broken a law, that would not excuse institutional torture and sexual abuse. Prison is extremely scary for a child - where I live and work, nobody under 18 is placed in prison as there is evidence of significant harm where that has happened in the past. Children detained in Israel don't even have the same rights and protections as they did here, in a country where even those rights and protections were deemed insufficient to safeguard children.

OP posts:
Lettherebejustice · 04/09/2024 13:06

@SababaToo I am asking you this in good faith. As you strongly oppose a deal, what is the alternative?
I have read some posts by another poster I think their name is Israelilefty, and I agree with alot of what they say including the need for a deal. I have seen the large protests in Israel, which are some of the largest to take place there, that are calling for a deal. Yet you, and a few posters on here seem to be strongly against it, which at this point in the war seems to be a minority view point. So what is your alternative?

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 13:09

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When I first read the bit about "willing to sacrifice their own people rather than negotiate" I couldn’t believe that the author wasn’t referring to Hamas (as per the repeated quotes you have provided)!

Lettherebejustice · 04/09/2024 13:09

I can see why Netanyahu doesn't want to end the war. He has been criticised by some of the most senior and influential ministers and authority figures in Israel, who have openly advocated for a deal and have stated Netanyahu's constant sabotage of one is due to his political survival.

I can't fathom how others who are supposedly supporters of Israel can follow his path.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/09/2024 13:09

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 12:01

When you say "children", are you referring to youths arrested while throwing or catapulting rocks at people?

What children have been abused or tortured in Israeli custody? I’m not denying that there might be isolated incidents of prisoner mistreatment by bad-apple guards, but I have not seen any verified reports of torture or abuse of children.

Do you know that illegal settlers often throw rocks at Palestinians in the West Bank. Nothing happens to them. They are neither imprisoned nor shot as Palestinians are.

Scirocco · 04/09/2024 13:11

ScrollingLeaves · 04/09/2024 13:09

Do you know that illegal settlers often throw rocks at Palestinians in the West Bank. Nothing happens to them. They are neither imprisoned nor shot as Palestinians are.

But Palestinians who express that they don't want to be evicted at gunpoint get shot, people standing in front of homes get crushed by bulldozers, and people returning to gather a few belongings from the wreckage of the home they had to flee get arrested.

OP posts:
Miffylou · 04/09/2024 13:12

ScrollingLeaves · 04/09/2024 13:09

Do you know that illegal settlers often throw rocks at Palestinians in the West Bank. Nothing happens to them. They are neither imprisoned nor shot as Palestinians are.

They should be arrested.

SababaToo · 04/09/2024 13:17

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Lettherebejustice · 04/09/2024 13:24

Meanwhile, Hamas has to be degraded substantially and seriously

Reputable sources have stated that this has already happened.

as well as properly dealing with the center of the conflict in the Middle East - Iran.

Whilst I agree with this, Israel isn't at war with Iran. So why continue fighting the branches when you are leaving the root intact? What will Israel gain from continuing to kill Palestinians and abandoning the hostages when they aren't addressing the root of the problem?

Scirocco · 04/09/2024 13:25

Miffylou · 04/09/2024 13:12

They should be arrested.

They should be. But they aren't. Because their actions are supported by people in power, who incite further actions like that, to move closer to the erasure of Palestinians from Palestine.

OP posts:
Lettherebejustice · 04/09/2024 13:25

Scirocco · 04/09/2024 13:25

They should be. But they aren't. Because their actions are supported by people in power, who incite further actions like that, to move closer to the erasure of Palestinians from Palestine.

They are not arrested because that is the system of apartheid.

BelleHathor · 04/09/2024 13:26

Scirocco · 04/09/2024 13:11

But Palestinians who express that they don't want to be evicted at gunpoint get shot, people standing in front of homes get crushed by bulldozers, and people returning to gather a few belongings from the wreckage of the home they had to flee get arrested.

Exactly, look at how this settler threatened to rape a Palestinians last week:
https://x.com/afshinrattansi/status/1828456639621419091

‘This is my land…I was given it by God…you know Sde Teiman? Rape in the name of God, as they say.’

An Israeli settler threatens a Palestinian family with rape in South Hebron hills, in the illegally occupied West Bank

This is the colonial barbarism supported by the US, UK & EU

x.com

https://x.com/afshinrattansi/status/1828456639621419091

YoYoYoYo12345 · 04/09/2024 13:26

whataclownshow

I agree with what you've said

"I've lost count of the number of posters on these threads tying themselves in knots to claim Hamas' stated aim isn't to kill Jews, just because it wasn't enshrined with a ballpoint pen in their second charter or something."

With that level of denial it's really no point interacting 🙄

YoYoYoYo12345 · 04/09/2024 13:27

@ whataclownshow

I'd just leave them to it personally. Save your breath.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/09/2024 13:28

Yes

Haaretz:
The 'Holy' Philadelphi Route Will Be Paved With Hostages' Bodies as Israel Reoccupies Gaza

Netanyahu and his ministers know that the army's presence on the Gaza-Egypt border didn't prevent Hamas' attacks in the past. The goal actually is to keep Israel in Gaza forever, a goal that's no longer folly, but evil.

Haaretz
â–  HOSTAGES/CEASE-FIRE:
The press conference held on Monday evening by PM Netanyahu,
in which he argued that Israel will never leave the Philadelphi corridor, has"torpedoed" mediators' attempts to renew cease-fire/hostage deal negotiations, a source familiar with the talks told CNN.

Haaretz
The cabinet's decision to keep Israeli troops on the Philadelphi Corridor ignores the stance of the army and Shin Bet people who believe that Israel can forgo control over the route, certainly for a limited time.

The Times of Israel
www.timesofisrael.com/asked-to-decide-between-hostages-or-philadelphi-netanyahu-said-to-prefer-latter/
Last Thursday 29th, Chief of the IDF Herzl Halevi said they did not need the Philadelphia Corridor as they could re enter later. Mossad head said it was illogical and not necessary. Netanyahu insisted and made them all sign to keep a presence in the PC. even though Gallant said this would lead to the death of hostages.

BelleHathor · 04/09/2024 13:29

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SababaToo · 04/09/2024 13:29

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Lettherebejustice · 04/09/2024 13:33

@SababaToo I see we are not going to agree so I see no point in continuing this discussion. I believe your stance will only lead to further heartache, bloodshed and instability for both Israelis and Palestinians alike. I really don't blame Israelis for going on strike against their hardline government, who refuse to listen to the masses for political gain.

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