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Conflict in the Middle East
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8
blackcherryconserve · 24/07/2024 15:56

Finallyloggedin · 24/07/2024 11:22

I think they were mainly just saying that Israel needs to stop murdering innocent men, women and children, feeding people to dogs, torturing them and generally committing genocide. When that stops, maybe a peace process can begin, which I don’t think they actually meant that they want to be involved in.

I echo what @ConnieCounter has just said - it’s far from ideal but no other country in the world seems willing (US, UK, much of Europe) or able (the rest of the world, which luckily still has a moral compass) to stop them from inventing new ways to murder innocent men, women and children day in, day out.

However, sadly I doubt this will actually make a difference.

feeding people to dogs? Where in the real world did you read this? You are sick to spread such disinformation.

Lettherebejustice · 24/07/2024 16:27

@blackcherryconserve it is the Israeli government who are sick. Who are using dogs to maul Palestinians to death... They have killed and killed and killed leaving behind devastation wherever they go in Gaza. Haven't you seen all the videos of Israeli soldiers filming their disgusting atrocities and then posting it on their social media?.. there are even piles of bodies being eaten by dogs on the streets in areas where they haven't allowed the Palestinians to go back to. That's what is sick.

blackcherryconserve · 24/07/2024 17:04

Lettherebejustice · 24/07/2024 16:27

@blackcherryconserve it is the Israeli government who are sick. Who are using dogs to maul Palestinians to death... They have killed and killed and killed leaving behind devastation wherever they go in Gaza. Haven't you seen all the videos of Israeli soldiers filming their disgusting atrocities and then posting it on their social media?.. there are even piles of bodies being eaten by dogs on the streets in areas where they haven't allowed the Palestinians to go back to. That's what is sick.

So provide a certified link that identifies the bodies being eaten by dogs. Hamas are to blame for everything that happens in Gaza.

EasterIssland · 24/07/2024 17:07

blackcherryconserve · 24/07/2024 17:04

So provide a certified link that identifies the bodies being eaten by dogs. Hamas are to blame for everything that happens in Gaza.

What is a certified link for you ?

ConnieCounter · 24/07/2024 17:10

blackcherryconserve · 24/07/2024 17:04

So provide a certified link that identifies the bodies being eaten by dogs. Hamas are to blame for everything that happens in Gaza.

There's bodies lying unburied all over the place and the population including dogs are starving. Doesn't take a genius to see how it ends.

SharonEllis · 24/07/2024 17:13

ConnieCounter · 24/07/2024 17:10

There's bodies lying unburied all over the place and the population including dogs are starving. Doesn't take a genius to see how it ends.

Bodies unburied is one of the horrible aspects of a warzone. Not for the first time it becomes apparent that some people have never really thought about, or been aware of all the horrors of war. But it is materially different to 'feeding people to dogs' which was the accusation.

Lettherebejustice · 24/07/2024 17:16

blackcherryconserve · 24/07/2024 17:04

So provide a certified link that identifies the bodies being eaten by dogs. Hamas are to blame for everything that happens in Gaza.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68961719.amp

TRIGGER WARNING

Rehab Abu Daqqa wearing a head scarf covering her mouth standing in front of a tent

'My children cling to me as dogs raid graves near our shelter' - BBC News

In a tent yards from a cemetery, Rehab Abu Daqqa tries to shield her seven children from Rafah's horrors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68961719.amp

ConnieCounter · 24/07/2024 17:33

SharonEllis · 24/07/2024 17:13

Bodies unburied is one of the horrible aspects of a warzone. Not for the first time it becomes apparent that some people have never really thought about, or been aware of all the horrors of war. But it is materially different to 'feeding people to dogs' which was the accusation.

Well the IDF used their dogs to maul two Palestinians that we know of. One was a man with severe special needs who was abandoned and left to die.

And no, CIVILIAN bodies left lying all over the place actually isn't normal in a war because normal wars allow for people to leave.

Kindatired · 24/07/2024 17:43

SharonEllis · 24/07/2024 17:13

Bodies unburied is one of the horrible aspects of a warzone. Not for the first time it becomes apparent that some people have never really thought about, or been aware of all the horrors of war. But it is materially different to 'feeding people to dogs' which was the accusation.

Sure that’s grand then. Entirely normal. Nothing to worry about . Happens all the time. Nothing to do with Israel, Hamas started it…….

poshsnobtwit · 24/07/2024 17:46

Hamas are to blame for everything that happens in Gaza

Really @blackcherryconserve ? The blockades, the calorific rationing, the destroying of fisher boats, purposeful destruction of salination systems, the prevention of access of life saving medicines...in what way is any of these Israeli policies that have been in place for years the blame of Hamas? Can we please just take a few seconds to acknowledge the sheer harm that has resulted at the hands of Israel? We'll not even mention the WB at this point.

blackcherryconserve · 24/07/2024 17:52

I stand by my claim that everything that has happened in Gaza since 7th October 2023 is a direct result of Hamas actions before and since that date. You can all disagree but we live in a free society unlike the people of Gaza who haven't been allowed free elections since 2006. I won't be commenting further on this thread.

blackcherryconserve · 24/07/2024 17:56

ConnieCounter · 24/07/2024 17:33

Well the IDF used their dogs to maul two Palestinians that we know of. One was a man with severe special needs who was abandoned and left to die.

And no, CIVILIAN bodies left lying all over the place actually isn't normal in a war because normal wars allow for people to leave.

For heaven sake! In every single war bodies are left behind usually to rot unless they can be removed safely. Have a look at places like Sudan where the same dreadful things take place because it is a war zone.

ConnieCounter · 24/07/2024 18:09

blackcherryconserve · 24/07/2024 17:56

For heaven sake! In every single war bodies are left behind usually to rot unless they can be removed safely. Have a look at places like Sudan where the same dreadful things take place because it is a war zone.

So what's your point? First it was doubting the dog story and now that evidence has been presented it's that it's normal and fine?

Justifying this is disgusting. You should stop.

RedToothBrush · 24/07/2024 18:11

Or what?

What are they actually going to do?

This is important before you start going 'great'.

Are you giving a blank cheque to Anonymous?

Then what do they do next? Who do they target next?

Slow hand clap.

Dulra · 24/07/2024 18:20

blackcherryconserve · 24/07/2024 17:52

I stand by my claim that everything that has happened in Gaza since 7th October 2023 is a direct result of Hamas actions before and since that date. You can all disagree but we live in a free society unlike the people of Gaza who haven't been allowed free elections since 2006. I won't be commenting further on this thread.

I stand by my claim that everything that has happened in Gaza since 7th October 2023 is a direct result of Hamas actions before and since that date.

The Israeli government and the IDF are fully responsible for their war crimes in Gaza. They made me so it is a not a defence.
You can stand by whatever claim you want, doesn't mean you're right.

SharonEllis · 24/07/2024 18:41

ConnieCounter · 24/07/2024 18:09

So what's your point? First it was doubting the dog story and now that evidence has been presented it's that it's normal and fine?

Justifying this is disgusting. You should stop.

No. The 'dog story' was 'feeding people to dogs' with the inference that it was a fairly regular tactic. No evidence, despite the one horrific story which I'm sure we can agree was awful. Noone doubts or argues that this is a horrific war but Hamas created this situation because they do not in any way operate by the normal rules of war as signalled in the most horrific fashion by the whole nature of the October 7th attack. Israel have undoubtedly responded in ways they should not have but your perspective is frankly warped. If you can't understand this then there is no talking to you. I remind you that this thread started with people thinking that Anonymous's self aggrandizing adolescent publicity stunt was some sort of useful contribution to a peace process. So I think I'll leave it here.

Dulra · 24/07/2024 18:58

SharonEllis · 24/07/2024 18:41

No. The 'dog story' was 'feeding people to dogs' with the inference that it was a fairly regular tactic. No evidence, despite the one horrific story which I'm sure we can agree was awful. Noone doubts or argues that this is a horrific war but Hamas created this situation because they do not in any way operate by the normal rules of war as signalled in the most horrific fashion by the whole nature of the October 7th attack. Israel have undoubtedly responded in ways they should not have but your perspective is frankly warped. If you can't understand this then there is no talking to you. I remind you that this thread started with people thinking that Anonymous's self aggrandizing adolescent publicity stunt was some sort of useful contribution to a peace process. So I think I'll leave it here.

Hamas created this situation because they do not in any way operate by the normal rules of war as signalled in the most horrific fashion by the whole nature of the October 7th attack.
Hamas barbaric actions does not absolve the IDF of theirs

Israel have undoubtedly responded in ways they should not have
What an understatement. The Israeli government and the IDF have become the monsters they're trying to defeat.

SharonEllis · 24/07/2024 19:41

EasterIssland · 24/07/2024 19:23

The story of Israel using dogs against Palestinians isn’t even something they are doing since 7-10.

this is from 2015
https://m.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/idf-temporarily-stops-use-of-dogs-after-video-shows-attack-on-palestinian-youth-393114

Armies, police even private security use dogs as routine everywhere in the world, including in the UK. Of course the IDF used dogs before the current war. This is NOT 'feeding people to dogs' is it? This is a report about tbe IDF taking action when soldiers did not use them in they are intended. They literally halted rhe use of dogs, investigated etc. In the context of the fact tjat these were raids on terrorist targets. Terrorists who throw molotovs and stab civilians in the streetThis does not illustrate the point you think you are making. It does illustrate that you dont seem to have a grip on reality.

Buddysbunda · 24/07/2024 19:53

It's honestly embarrassing that people are still defending an army that multiple Drs have said are executing children, toddlers found with a shot to the head and one to the heart and people still feel compelled to leap in to their defence. Some serious grips on reality are needed indeed.

Lettherebejustice · 24/07/2024 19:57

Buddysbunda · 24/07/2024 19:53

It's honestly embarrassing that people are still defending an army that multiple Drs have said are executing children, toddlers found with a shot to the head and one to the heart and people still feel compelled to leap in to their defence. Some serious grips on reality are needed indeed.

I think it's actually quite frightening how some people can't accept the nature of the atrocities even though it is staring at them in the face. I don't believe I have encountered it in real life, mumsnet does have some strange characters though..

ScrollingLeaves · 24/07/2024 20:26

SharonEllis · 24/07/2024 19:41

Armies, police even private security use dogs as routine everywhere in the world, including in the UK. Of course the IDF used dogs before the current war. This is NOT 'feeding people to dogs' is it? This is a report about tbe IDF taking action when soldiers did not use them in they are intended. They literally halted rhe use of dogs, investigated etc. In the context of the fact tjat these were raids on terrorist targets. Terrorists who throw molotovs and stab civilians in the streetThis does not illustrate the point you think you are making. It does illustrate that you dont seem to have a grip on reality.

I think it is noticeable that the instinct of the IDF soldiers in this case was to set the dog on the 16 year old boy after they had him under control anyway, in other words, in a vindictive attack that was not a normal arrest.

That is why the Israeli Brigadier General said the use of the dog was an immoral act. So this was not what should constitute a routine use.

This was at an illegal settlement. Karmei Tzur settlement, not that the IDF would have recognised it as such.

Then there was the old woman dragged out of her bed an out the door of her home by an Israeli IDF dog.

There are dog houses with chained dogs set around illegal settlements to be intimidating to Palestinians.

Dogs in Israeli prisons are used to terrify and humiliate prisoners. They are held by a leash inches away from a prisoner while growling and snapping at them. Or allowed to maul them while muzzled.

Maybe someone Muslim here might be able to add what misuse of dogs on them would feel like, but I think it could be defiling and humiliating.

So I disagree that this is all normal routine dog army work even though that may have been the original intention.

And it seems possible to me that EasterIssland has a good idea of what the reality concerning dogs is turning out to be, in practice, in no few instances.

EasterIssland · 24/07/2024 21:08

There is outrage today in the uk about how a person was treated by the police in an airport. It’s not ok how this person has been treated regardless of the crime (if any) they might have committed.

This is what I’d like to see about those actions that IDF commit. Regardless of what they do , I tend do see always apologising comments“This is war”, “this happens in other places” etc etc. NO. This is not alright. Criticise those actions that are against human rights. Only by turning your back to these actions we might end up with them. As long as there is people accepting them , then they will continue to exist

EasterIssland · 24/07/2024 21:17

SharonEllis · 24/07/2024 19:41

Armies, police even private security use dogs as routine everywhere in the world, including in the UK. Of course the IDF used dogs before the current war. This is NOT 'feeding people to dogs' is it? This is a report about tbe IDF taking action when soldiers did not use them in they are intended. They literally halted rhe use of dogs, investigated etc. In the context of the fact tjat these were raids on terrorist targets. Terrorists who throw molotovs and stab civilians in the streetThis does not illustrate the point you think you are making. It does illustrate that you dont seem to have a grip on reality.

You’re justifying something that even IDF couldn’t justify.

if this is so common , can you please point me at a single event when the IDF used dogs to reduce an Israeli teenager when they already had them under control ? If it’s this common probably there will be a few news about it.

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