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Conflict in the Middle East

University students rising up against ties with Israel (title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)

1000 replies

EasterIssland · 26/04/2024 17:06

Many university students are raising up against the ties their universities have with Israel. Students are asking for this agreements to stop
I can see this is happening in USA which has been in the news quite a lot but I can also read news about Paris as well as UK.

I really doubt much will change but I’m glad people are against these agreements. We can’t change what Israel / Hamas do. But we should be able to change what our governments / universities do.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
113
CormorantStrikesBack · 02/05/2024 09:17

By all means have a peaceful protest, set up a camp. But I’ve seen some awful videos of them blocking students from moving around campus.

One in particular the pro Palestine protesters formed a ring around one guy and then moved off with him in the middle, so he was forced to go with them. They have no right to do that, was like a bizarre slow motion kidnapping. He stayed calm, I’d have been throwing punches if it had been me.

Hippyhippybake · 02/05/2024 09:31

@Oakstreet Do you feel the same anger on behalf of the Jews who were driven out of lands they occupied all over Europe for generations?

Dulra · 02/05/2024 10:25

CormorantStrikesBack · 02/05/2024 09:17

By all means have a peaceful protest, set up a camp. But I’ve seen some awful videos of them blocking students from moving around campus.

One in particular the pro Palestine protesters formed a ring around one guy and then moved off with him in the middle, so he was forced to go with them. They have no right to do that, was like a bizarre slow motion kidnapping. He stayed calm, I’d have been throwing punches if it had been me.

All the msm reports I have seen on the protest on the UCLA campus is that violence erupted when counter demonstrators attacked the pro-Palestinian encampment on the UCLA campus. It appears they are not students in the University so the University has serious questions to answer on how they got access to the campus in the first place.

My nephew was living on campus in an American College when a shooter got access it was terrifying and two people lost their lives, so I would have thought American college security would have been more robust in light of those kind of threats on America.

CormorantStrikesBack · 02/05/2024 10:37

Dulra · 02/05/2024 10:25

All the msm reports I have seen on the protest on the UCLA campus is that violence erupted when counter demonstrators attacked the pro-Palestinian encampment on the UCLA campus. It appears they are not students in the University so the University has serious questions to answer on how they got access to the campus in the first place.

My nephew was living on campus in an American College when a shooter got access it was terrifying and two people lost their lives, so I would have thought American college security would have been more robust in light of those kind of threats on America.

It was a TikTok I saw, can’t remember which campus. The guy who was effectively kidnapped looked very young, 18yo type age. He appeared to be trying to calmly gain access to a building, he was infront of a building door anyway.

I admit maybe he was doing something to inflame the situation, I’m not sure of the background and why he was trying to get in. Whether it was his dorm, or he had a lecture or was trying to antagonise people I don’t know. But like I say he was calm. And ultimately nobody should be preventing other students from entering a building. also in other footage some of the pro Palestinian protesters seem to have left buildings in a real state/caused lots of damage when occupying which is bad. Unless that’s been done by the police when evicting them 🤷🏻‍♀️

Dulra · 02/05/2024 10:41

CormorantStrikesBack · 02/05/2024 10:37

It was a TikTok I saw, can’t remember which campus. The guy who was effectively kidnapped looked very young, 18yo type age. He appeared to be trying to calmly gain access to a building, he was infront of a building door anyway.

I admit maybe he was doing something to inflame the situation, I’m not sure of the background and why he was trying to get in. Whether it was his dorm, or he had a lecture or was trying to antagonise people I don’t know. But like I say he was calm. And ultimately nobody should be preventing other students from entering a building. also in other footage some of the pro Palestinian protesters seem to have left buildings in a real state/caused lots of damage when occupying which is bad. Unless that’s been done by the police when evicting them 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think there is terrible behaviour on both sides. If I was a parent though my main concern would be the access to the campus by external protagonists that to me is a massive breach of safeguarding

CormorantStrikesBack · 02/05/2024 11:33

Definitely. I know a lot of uk campuses are public access. You can walk round York and Nottingham campuses for example. I’m not sure what the set up is at USA campuses. I did think you could walk round Harvard but maybe that’s a paid tour?

ChalkWitch · 02/05/2024 11:36

Oakstreet · 02/05/2024 09:06

Really? And to the expense of generations of palestinians who have lived on the land for hundreds and hundreds of years. It's extreme, and very racist. Reading the Generals son. By Mike Peled is an eye opener. They are brainwashed from kindergarten with extreme views. Sorry poster. People are travelling more now, visiting the land, talking to people, and your view is becoming less acceptable. All humans are equal. And don't deserve to be thrown out of their land.

What is your definition of Zionism?

ChalkWitch · 02/05/2024 12:17

Hippyhippybake · 02/05/2024 09:31

@Oakstreet Do you feel the same anger on behalf of the Jews who were driven out of lands they occupied all over Europe for generations?

And are they aware that generations of Jews have lived on that land for hundreds of years as well?
All humans are equal eh @Oakstreet ? Unless they’re Jewish.

MissConductUS · 02/05/2024 12:18

CormorantStrikesBack · 02/05/2024 11:33

Definitely. I know a lot of uk campuses are public access. You can walk round York and Nottingham campuses for example. I’m not sure what the set up is at USA campuses. I did think you could walk round Harvard but maybe that’s a paid tour?

Every campus I've visited in the US has been open access, and we toured at least 20 with our kids. They have all sorts of visitors, prospective students, parents, etc., always coming and going.

The one exception I can think of is the US Military Academy at West Point. There, you have to obtain visitor credentials to enter. But it's technically an Army base and, after 9/11, was considered a potential target for terrorist attacks. I think the Naval and Air Force academies are the same.

EasterIssland · 02/05/2024 12:26

US2gether · 02/05/2024 08:42

Sadly the levels of polarised opinion and hatred lead to this: Jewish girl beaten unconscious by pro Palestine group, rushed to hospital.

No words. Protests that hurt people, who are nothing to do with the war, awful.

https://twitter.com/CollinRugg/status/1785457052028117153

I’ve been reading conflicting info about this woman.

this other account claims that she wasn’t beaten unconscious, it’s not clear it was protesters that hit her , it didn’t happen when they said it happened, and it wasn’t the reason why peo Israel supporters attacked the protesters as some accounts on social media and news are claiming

https://twitter.com/TrevorSutcliffe/status/1785850241536901515

https://twitter.com/TrevorSutcliffe/status/1785850241536901515

OP posts:
EasterIssland · 02/05/2024 12:43

*pro

OP posts:
oharobot · 02/05/2024 12:52

EasterIssland · 02/05/2024 12:26

I’ve been reading conflicting info about this woman.

this other account claims that she wasn’t beaten unconscious, it’s not clear it was protesters that hit her , it didn’t happen when they said it happened, and it wasn’t the reason why peo Israel supporters attacked the protesters as some accounts on social media and news are claiming

https://twitter.com/TrevorSutcliffe/status/1785850241536901515

Well if some antisemitic shithead on twitter says it didn't happen then clearly it didn't.

ChalkWitch · 02/05/2024 12:54

EasterIssland · 02/05/2024 12:26

I’ve been reading conflicting info about this woman.

this other account claims that she wasn’t beaten unconscious, it’s not clear it was protesters that hit her , it didn’t happen when they said it happened, and it wasn’t the reason why peo Israel supporters attacked the protesters as some accounts on social media and news are claiming

https://twitter.com/TrevorSutcliffe/status/1785850241536901515

Who is this guy? He’s titled it ‘Anatomy of a Zionist lie’ which doesn’t suggest an impartial take…

EasterIssland · 02/05/2024 12:59

ChalkWitch · 02/05/2024 12:54

Who is this guy? He’s titled it ‘Anatomy of a Zionist lie’ which doesn’t suggest an impartial take…

And the first account that reported the attack do you think was an impartial take?

OP posts:
ChalkWitch · 02/05/2024 13:03

EasterIssland · 02/05/2024 12:59

And the first account that reported the attack do you think was an impartial take?

Well, let’s see. First report avoids sensationalist language, uses the term ‘reportedly’ and doesn’t use inflammatory race related language. So yes.

oharobot · 02/05/2024 13:18

EasterIssland · 02/05/2024 12:59

And the first account that reported the attack do you think was an impartial take?

Did the tweet talk about zionist lies and Jewish mobs and come from an account full of anti-Semitic tweets?

I'd ask where you find these people but I'm not sure I want to know.

Dulra · 02/05/2024 14:01

MissConductUS · 02/05/2024 12:18

Every campus I've visited in the US has been open access, and we toured at least 20 with our kids. They have all sorts of visitors, prospective students, parents, etc., always coming and going.

The one exception I can think of is the US Military Academy at West Point. There, you have to obtain visitor credentials to enter. But it's technically an Army base and, after 9/11, was considered a potential target for terrorist attacks. I think the Naval and Air Force academies are the same.

Yes I'd imagine campuses are open to the public. I can drive and walk through the campus of a university close to me but there are security vans patrolling all the time, so surely a massive influx of angry people should have been stopped and turfed out? It is private property and the university has a duty of care to their students just like an employer would for their employees.

EasterIssland · 02/05/2024 15:34

Police shooting rubber bullets at those protesting in UCLA. Where were day yesterday ?

https://twitter.com/halalflow/status/1785988236831031620

i know 2 people that have lost an eye and one was killed by one of this in my country

https://twitter.com/halalflow/status/1785988236831031620

OP posts:
TheKeenAmberHedgehog · 02/05/2024 15:57

From The Daily Telegraph:
"Covid is long since over, but the protesters still wear face masks: the ignorant, entitled little delinquents running riot in so many of the world’s greatest universities are truly an embarrassment. The product of a catastrophic social experiment, of years of brainwashing and coddling, they embody all of the Western world’s most debilitating pathologies.
Their childish, self-important antics would be risible were their normalisation of hatred not so ominous, their rejection of democratic, liberal and conservative norms alike not so terrifying. Previous generations of protesters at least had a cause, sometimes a very powerful and just one; this bunch are self-loathing, inchoate nihilists who hate the West, hate America, hate Britain, hate Israel, and want to tear down everything great about our civilisation.
The keffiyeh-clad protesters claim to support the Palestinian cause, but are staggeringly ignorant about the realities of the Middle East. They entirely lack theological understanding. They don’t know any history, ancient or modern, and often readily admit as much. They have no idea how many peace deals the Palestinian establishment has rejected over the decades, and couldn’t really care less. They spout whatever fake news is fed to them via TikTok, or the latest made-up statistics from the Hamas health authorities.
They wave LGBTQ+ flags while chanting “from the river to the sea”, not realising that gay people are routinely murdered in Islamist dictatorships. They purport to care about minorities, but all too frequently have been filmed engaging in despicable anti-Semitic hate speech, such as calling on Jews to “return to Poland”. They don’t understand the difference between free speech and intimidation, trespass and violence.
They have no positive vision, no meaningful reality-based plan, nothing useful to contribute. They don’t care about Iranian women assaulted by the regime, or Coptic Christians who are being attacked in Egypt, or Hezbollah’s slow-motion religious cleansing of Lebanon. Their heart isn’t in the right place, and they should not be given the benefit of the doubt.
They claim to hate nation-states and to believe in open borders, but their encampments look strangely like the “fascistic” countries they loathe: there are borders, entry points, guards, identity checks, enforcers, and the expulsion of any member of the out-group that dares to show up – in this case, “Zionists” who are banned from libraries or going to lectures. Joe Biden has disgraced himself for doing so little about a disgusting spectacle with echoes of the 1930s.
The protesters’ problem is partly psychological, as exposed with brutal clarity by videos on social media. The most spoiled generation in history, used to being shielded from every threat by helicopter parents, they feel hard done by as the police belatedly storm their barricades.
Many young activists have been turned into self-entitled narcissists by a culture that tells them that society owes them everything, that the world revolves around them, that great institutions must change to make them feel more comfortable, that there is such a thing as “their truth”. They find it hard to distinguish between virtue-signalling and actual deeds.
They spend so long online or editing selfies that they aren’t always sure what is real life and what is fantasy. Hence ludicrous scenes of protesters play-acting what they wrongly believe to be happening in Gaza: students passing food through prison-style bars, a protester, oozing self-pity, asking for water lest she “die of dehydration”, demands for “humanitarian aid” from the university authorities.
It’s a pathetic case of weakness being turned into the only moral value, of delusional activists so detached from the harsh reality of real wars that they believe those they demonstrate against owe them free food. It is cosplay politics, protest as a performance art, made for a gullible, easily manipulated smartphone generation that cannot distinguish fact from fiction.
The protesters have been contaminated by two ideological viruses which have made them allergic to their own societies. They have swallowed the lie that the West is the fount of all evil, that we are racist and sexist, that our achievements are illusory, the product of looting and colonialism, and that we are destroying the planet. They feel shame, not pride, and believe in the need to forever atone for our sins and those of our ancestors.
It is no coincidence that we almost never see British or American flags at pro-Palestine demonstrations on the streets of London, but always spot union flags (as well as Israeli and pre-revolutionary Iranian ones) at the pro-Israel counter-protests. The conflict is a proxy battle for the soul of the West.
Young activists have been taught a simplistic theory of “social justice”: individuals, groups or countries that aren’t doing as well as they would expect are “victims” who “deserve” a lot more, and those that are doing better are “oppressors” who don’t deserve their wealth. The origins of this are partly Marxist and partly drawn from a residual cultural Christianity focused exclusively on the idea that “the meek shall inherit the earth”.
This dichotomy has bred a defeatist culture of victimhood and entitlement which downplays individual agency, promotes welfarism, confiscatory taxation and rejects hard work. It has fuelled anti-Semitic and other conspiracy theories, and successful minorities are being targeted for vicious “reverse” discrimination.
It has led to an inane assumption that all poor countries are automatically good and all rich ones inherently bad. Britain and America are uber-oppressors; China is treated with indifference or indulgence. The barbaric Iranian regime is viewed as an ally, as it opposes “the Great Satan”. Hamas, a genocidal dictatorship is, by definition, a “victim”; Israel, a multi-faith democracy, is the oppressor, even though the Israelis left Gaza in 2005 and even though Hamas raped, kidnapped and murdered Israelis.
The horseshoe theory of politics has come true: traditionally far-Left and far-Right tropes have fused into a full-service, sickeningly authoritarian woke replacement ideology lapped up by those, especially young Westerners, who are losing trust in democracy. Don’t be fooled: the protests defiling universities may be naive, amateurish and solipsistic, but they are the harbinger of far worse to come."

My generation of student radicals fought for liberty. Today’s are a delusional cult

I was there when Berkeley erupted in outrage at restrictions on free speech. It was nothing like the protests today

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/27/my-generation-student-radicals-fought-liberty-today-cult/

MushMonster · 02/05/2024 16:17

They will be easily accessible.

The police or campus security did restrict access to the area at some point.
I have seen a student interviewed who said she was allowed in a building only because it was her dorm. So there was some control going on.

There will be students that are out of order. Those can be removed by Security, or police if needed.
But there is no need whatsoever to get there and start attacking them, which was what some people took upon themselves to do and, unfortunately, they were not stopped on time.

UK protests are on, including staying on campus, so let's hope nothing of this spreads any further.

Dulra · 02/05/2024 16:28

TheKeenAmberHedgehog · 02/05/2024 15:57

From The Daily Telegraph:
"Covid is long since over, but the protesters still wear face masks: the ignorant, entitled little delinquents running riot in so many of the world’s greatest universities are truly an embarrassment. The product of a catastrophic social experiment, of years of brainwashing and coddling, they embody all of the Western world’s most debilitating pathologies.
Their childish, self-important antics would be risible were their normalisation of hatred not so ominous, their rejection of democratic, liberal and conservative norms alike not so terrifying. Previous generations of protesters at least had a cause, sometimes a very powerful and just one; this bunch are self-loathing, inchoate nihilists who hate the West, hate America, hate Britain, hate Israel, and want to tear down everything great about our civilisation.
The keffiyeh-clad protesters claim to support the Palestinian cause, but are staggeringly ignorant about the realities of the Middle East. They entirely lack theological understanding. They don’t know any history, ancient or modern, and often readily admit as much. They have no idea how many peace deals the Palestinian establishment has rejected over the decades, and couldn’t really care less. They spout whatever fake news is fed to them via TikTok, or the latest made-up statistics from the Hamas health authorities.
They wave LGBTQ+ flags while chanting “from the river to the sea”, not realising that gay people are routinely murdered in Islamist dictatorships. They purport to care about minorities, but all too frequently have been filmed engaging in despicable anti-Semitic hate speech, such as calling on Jews to “return to Poland”. They don’t understand the difference between free speech and intimidation, trespass and violence.
They have no positive vision, no meaningful reality-based plan, nothing useful to contribute. They don’t care about Iranian women assaulted by the regime, or Coptic Christians who are being attacked in Egypt, or Hezbollah’s slow-motion religious cleansing of Lebanon. Their heart isn’t in the right place, and they should not be given the benefit of the doubt.
They claim to hate nation-states and to believe in open borders, but their encampments look strangely like the “fascistic” countries they loathe: there are borders, entry points, guards, identity checks, enforcers, and the expulsion of any member of the out-group that dares to show up – in this case, “Zionists” who are banned from libraries or going to lectures. Joe Biden has disgraced himself for doing so little about a disgusting spectacle with echoes of the 1930s.
The protesters’ problem is partly psychological, as exposed with brutal clarity by videos on social media. The most spoiled generation in history, used to being shielded from every threat by helicopter parents, they feel hard done by as the police belatedly storm their barricades.
Many young activists have been turned into self-entitled narcissists by a culture that tells them that society owes them everything, that the world revolves around them, that great institutions must change to make them feel more comfortable, that there is such a thing as “their truth”. They find it hard to distinguish between virtue-signalling and actual deeds.
They spend so long online or editing selfies that they aren’t always sure what is real life and what is fantasy. Hence ludicrous scenes of protesters play-acting what they wrongly believe to be happening in Gaza: students passing food through prison-style bars, a protester, oozing self-pity, asking for water lest she “die of dehydration”, demands for “humanitarian aid” from the university authorities.
It’s a pathetic case of weakness being turned into the only moral value, of delusional activists so detached from the harsh reality of real wars that they believe those they demonstrate against owe them free food. It is cosplay politics, protest as a performance art, made for a gullible, easily manipulated smartphone generation that cannot distinguish fact from fiction.
The protesters have been contaminated by two ideological viruses which have made them allergic to their own societies. They have swallowed the lie that the West is the fount of all evil, that we are racist and sexist, that our achievements are illusory, the product of looting and colonialism, and that we are destroying the planet. They feel shame, not pride, and believe in the need to forever atone for our sins and those of our ancestors.
It is no coincidence that we almost never see British or American flags at pro-Palestine demonstrations on the streets of London, but always spot union flags (as well as Israeli and pre-revolutionary Iranian ones) at the pro-Israel counter-protests. The conflict is a proxy battle for the soul of the West.
Young activists have been taught a simplistic theory of “social justice”: individuals, groups or countries that aren’t doing as well as they would expect are “victims” who “deserve” a lot more, and those that are doing better are “oppressors” who don’t deserve their wealth. The origins of this are partly Marxist and partly drawn from a residual cultural Christianity focused exclusively on the idea that “the meek shall inherit the earth”.
This dichotomy has bred a defeatist culture of victimhood and entitlement which downplays individual agency, promotes welfarism, confiscatory taxation and rejects hard work. It has fuelled anti-Semitic and other conspiracy theories, and successful minorities are being targeted for vicious “reverse” discrimination.
It has led to an inane assumption that all poor countries are automatically good and all rich ones inherently bad. Britain and America are uber-oppressors; China is treated with indifference or indulgence. The barbaric Iranian regime is viewed as an ally, as it opposes “the Great Satan”. Hamas, a genocidal dictatorship is, by definition, a “victim”; Israel, a multi-faith democracy, is the oppressor, even though the Israelis left Gaza in 2005 and even though Hamas raped, kidnapped and murdered Israelis.
The horseshoe theory of politics has come true: traditionally far-Left and far-Right tropes have fused into a full-service, sickeningly authoritarian woke replacement ideology lapped up by those, especially young Westerners, who are losing trust in democracy. Don’t be fooled: the protests defiling universities may be naive, amateurish and solipsistic, but they are the harbinger of far worse to come."

Oh come on such patronising rubbish from a "Boomer" surprised they didn't say "back in my day"

I'm not saying the protesters are right or wrong but I hate generational criticism I mean what do they know look at the state of the planet they've left the youth

BelleHathor · 02/05/2024 16:54

That Telegraph article smells like panic by the powers that be.

The kids aren't following the script, they know that complicity in probable war crimes including 30'000+ deaths is wrong.

None of the propaganda has worked. So ban Tiktok, enact new laws limiting speech, denigrate and threaten them. But still they stand and in 20 years they'll be in the ones in power.

ConnieCounter · 02/05/2024 17:00

EasterIssland · 02/05/2024 15:34

Police shooting rubber bullets at those protesting in UCLA. Where were day yesterday ?

https://twitter.com/halalflow/status/1785988236831031620

i know 2 people that have lost an eye and one was killed by one of this in my country

The British army killed 17 people in the north of Ireland with rubber bullets.

Oakstreet · 02/05/2024 17:01

Hippyhippybake · 02/05/2024 09:31

@Oakstreet Do you feel the same anger on behalf of the Jews who were driven out of lands they occupied all over Europe for generations?

Absolutely of course.In fact it was Normal Finklestrein , Miko Peled, and Gideon Levy to name just a few who have really opened my eyes to zionism. Goodness, I cried when I watched Schindlers list. And to see what the government has been doing to Palestinian for 75 years is horrific.
So to answer your question,yes. But you're going use any excuse to justify the genocide of many children. I'm not religious so throwing the OT biblical God who by the way seems to different to Jesus doesn't wash with me. There is absolutely no way anyone can justify genocide. And it didn't start 7th October. Oppossimg the brutality of military and government after years of humiliation, oppression, murder, stealing more land, and forcing Natives who have lived in the land for hundreds of years is not anti semitic. It's a humanitarian issue. It's the way the US and UK government have behaved towards it all.

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