This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 3)

[Eyesopenwideawake]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/15/babies-children-gaza-famine

Continuation of the previous thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east/5018751-this-is-the-reality-of-what-israel-is-doing-part-2?page=39&reply=134623626

@Scirocco "and that internationally agreed peace-keeping forces will be there to make sure that happens."

That worked well in the British Mandate of Palestine didn't it?

British troops got shot at from both sides. No wonder they pulled out in 1948.

“This situation of apartheid between us, this inequality has got to end.”

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C30lIZWShLf/?igsh=MXhnNmd0dnFrYmwxcA==

To think that this filmmaker has got death threats and labelled as antisemitic for speaking the truth.

That's what international peace-keeping forces do. They operate to keep the peace. It's not easy, it's not necessarily peaceful for the people doing the work. It's still important work when you have two groups of people who have a long history of reasons not to trust each other, who have to find a way to co-exist.

Palestinians are an oppressed and occupied group of people.

Anyone who believes otherwise is deluded and doing what some politicians are doing which is to gaslight the victims.

This is why we have so many people from
all walks of life across the world standing up and questioning what is happening and saying enough is enough.

Palestine needs to be recognised to have the same rights to existence, security and peace and Israel. It’s as simple as that. If it isn’t for some people as simple as that frankly they do not value all lives and they want to detract from the reality of the past and present as to what is happening.

Testimony from Doctors Without Borders
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3sdnR4pvDj/?igsh=MXNjemNzazgxNmRnbA==

You will only feel what the actress Miriam Margolyes feels if you have a decent moral compass:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6OsTwita3Q/?igsh=cWF2am51ejQydWp5

This is why people are uprising and will carry on uprising.

@DomPom47 "Palestine needs to be recognised to have the same rights to existence, security and peace as Israel."

As long as Palestinians have Hamas speaking for them there will be no peace.

That is because Hamas don't want peace, they are a proxy of Iran that wants to wipe Israel off the map.

Jews have learned from painful history that they should take it seriously when someone threatens to kill them.
Therefore, no one should be surprised at the alarm expressed by Israel when Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said, “This origin of corruption [Israel] will soon be wiped off the Earth’s face!” and Ayatollah Khamenei declared that Israel is a “cancerous tumor that should be cut and will be cut.”

Khamenei also said Israel would not exist in 25 years; it would disappear much earlier, Tel Aviv and Haifa would be turned to ashes, and Jerusalem would be liberated.

The front page of the December 14, 2021, edition of the Tehran Times featured a map of Israel covered with markings for potential rocket attacks with the threatening headline, “Just One Wrong Move!”
Beneath the map, the paper wrote, “An intensification of the Israeli military threats against Iran seems to suggest that the Zionist regime has forgotten that Iran is more than capable of hitting them from anywhere.”

Why are Palestinians in Gaza being punished for what Iran says and does? They have no power or influence over Iran and if Iran are the true puppetmasters why are Israel wasting their time in Gaza?
Surely a self governing Palestinian nation state is less of a threat to Israel than an occupied oppressed state that wants to overthrow their oppressor and possibly vulnerable to being influenced by states like Iran.

@Tripeandonions Hamas is not the Palestinian people. And hate-filled rants from Iranian politicians and media do not constitute grounds to deny an oppressed and occupied people their own state.

@Dulra "if Iran are the true puppetmasters why are Israel wasting their time in Gaza?"

because the rockets are coming from Gaza not Iran!

@Scirocco "And hate-filled rants from Iranian politicians and media do not constitute grounds to deny an oppressed and occupied people their own state."

They do. if Hamas remains in charge and being bankrolled by Iran. It's a matter of security for Israel.
How do they know if they are real threats or just 'sabre rattling' ?

Hamas are not the Palestinian people. It would be entirely achievable to establish and maintain a demilitarised, non-Hamas, Palestinian state as part of a two-state solution.

Another country's hatred does not mean a Palestinian child should be denied the right to a Palestinian state. It means a Palestinian state may need to be protected from exploitation by that other country.

@Scirocco "Hamas are not the Palestinian people."

No argument about that but apparently 70% of Palestinians support Hamas.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/

"It would be entirely achievable to establish and maintain a demilitarised, non-Hamas, Palestinian state as part of a two-state solution."

I'm not sure what you mean by "demilitarised", please expand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demilitarisation

What given the actions taken by Israel since October indicate that they in any way want a two state solution or, in fact, any autonomous Palestinian region where Gaza currently is?

Do you think Israel is going to, what, rebuild the place they're hitting with 6,000 bombs weekly? Ariel Sharon got the IDF out of Gaza in 2005 because it was totally untenable. Is Bibi insane enough to occupy a place he absolutely cannot achieve stated war aims in? Is forever war, to avoid prison, his only card now that the US put the kibosh on a wider conflict with Iran involved?

The actions taken lead to only one thing: ethnic cleansing. Unless someone can explain very carefully how anything Israelis in power are doing now is contrary to that take. Think very carefully about what they say and what they do, because they are very different things right now for non-domestic consumption.

But your whole post was about how Iran are a threat

That is because Hamas don't want peace, they are a proxy of Iran that wants to wipe Israel off the map.
I can only surmise from this that getting rid of Hamas will not protect Israel if Iran is the main threat.

@Tripeandonions
The bottom line is that Israel has killed thousand of innocent children and subjected three times that number to catastrophic life altering injuries. It cannot fully eliminate Hamas and Hamas does not have the capacity to repeat the 7/10 attacks.

It is just immoral to kill so many people in case of future wars

Except what is the alternative to a two state solution? If there was a one state solution, all Israel, with Palestinians having equal rights to Jewish Israelis, Israel would very quickly, NOT be a Jewish state. Palestinians out birth Jews and would soon be in the majority, they are already fairly even numbers. Or, Israel could continue as is, oppressing the Palestinian people and objecting to a two state on the global stage. Their international support is changing though and will only put up with so much. Muslim Americans are predicted to out number Jewish Americans in the years to come and will be an important vote.

Which neatly explains what we see.

@Scirocco "It would be entirely achievable to establish and maintain a demilitarised, non-Hamas, Palestinian state as part of a two-state solution."

If it's as simple as you suggest I wonder why it hasn't been done already ?

Iran works by proxies because it doesn't like getting it's hands dirty.

It's a power-hungry theocracy run by radical Islamists that oppress and abuse their own people.

Their goal is a world caliphate.

More info here.

https://www.memri.org/reports/hamas-leaders-our-goal-establishment-global-islamic-caliphate-not-just-liberation-palestine

The solution is surely an end to this brutal occupation and ongoing colonisation of indigenous people. Palestine is well on the path to liberation and who can blame them for not wanting to continue to live under this brutal zionist regime.

When South Africa was liberated there were similar cries of 'what about the poor white people who will lose power and be outnumbered?'. Why should anyone care about the feelings of violent colonisers.

Well, because people like Netanyahu, organisations like Hamas, and other important players such as the USA and Iran have all sabotaged efforts or supported the sabotaging of efforts at various times. I also didn't say this sort of thing was simple. I said it was achievable.

If you don't think it is, though, what do you think should happen? Because the options are:
... the status quo
... the total 'removal' of all Palestinians
... the creation of a single state in which Israelis and Palestinians would both be citizens
... unless you can think of something else?

Are the Palestinians or the Israelis the indigenous people? Isn't it amore complicated situation that you're suggesting here?

One of the issues is that people are arguing about whose ancestors were in places first, hundreds and thousands of years ago, but there are people alive today who were living in their own homes, on their own land, who were thrown out of their own homes by armed men who decided they wanted to be there instead. There are people who are being thrown out of their own homes, on their own land, today.