To be worried about the effects on British society of the conflict in Gaza

[mids2019]

Everyone is aware of the conflict in Gaza and we are delivered information on a daily basis through a range of online media.

I personally think there is an immense human tragedy here and the reporting on the whole is responsible. However I think we must realise in reality we fundamentally can't change the actions of foreign states but governments when appropriate can exert diplomatic pressure. Ultimately the US is the biggest geopolitical player when it comes to Israel.

I do think we have to be conscious of effects within or society in the UK about the prolonged deep feeling about this conflict including rising anti semitism and Islamaohibia. I feel it is very important to maintain community relations within a diverse country and I fear the polarisation brought in some parts of so sorry brought on by the Gaza conflict has a direct and maybe permanent impact on the community ties that bind us in the UK.

I think we have to remember we are all citizens of the UK and we live in a democratic state whose aim on an international level is to act on our interests forging alliances with friends and allies in the world. Israel is an ally of the UK and independent of the current crisis we will have trade and military ties with this partner state.

We have a record of welcoming historically welcoming both Jews and people from majority Muslim countries into the country and I would hate to think that the inflamed feeling about a foreign war leads to permanent division in the UK.

I feel we polarize society into 'Pro palestine' and 'pro Israel' at some level of our identities and these divisions may become permanent given the length and intracractibility of the conflict.

What can be done to make everyone feel safe in this country as far as possible and bond us in terms of being UK citizens in a global community?

The press report what they want to report and with whatever lens suits their narrative. Unfortunately people are internalising that message - all 218 million of them per month. It's no wonder Islamophobia is rife.

So, how to counteract that?
What to put in the other pan of the scales weighted down with negative images of Islam that aren’t just baseless lies?
Because you are working against terrorist bombings, child grooming gangs, threats to women’s rights, illegal immigration, killing and death threats against teachers, Afghanistan and the Taliban imagery, people fleeing Muslim countries for fear of persecution and claiming asylum in the UK, claims that Islam will be the dominant faith in Europe in a generation….all of which make headlines and make people shudder and fear.

All Israel has to do is continue to present itself as the front line against the threat, the David facing the monster and they will be seen as a necessary evil.

The amount of casual and potentially even unrecognised Islamophobia on these boards is rather disappointing. It's just 'normal conversation ' now.

Scirocco
How would you go about countering it?
Undoing the fear that drives most of the prejudice, to make everyone feel safe and secure?

There is currently a thread in chat about a daughter reverting to Islam if you want an active example of casual islamophobia.

I think there is danger with using a "phobia" suffix. People are allowed views, this is the same for many topics and the labelling of phobic is not helpful in my view.

I don't like the term either. A 'phobia' is generally thought of as a health issue, for which a person is not responsible and has limited or no control. That trivialises and excuses prejudice and hate. The Wikipedia article on the term has a brief summary of its origins and differing views on the term.

What happens when those views perpetuate unpleasant and harmful stereotypes? We wouldn’t tolerate those views relating to other minorities.

It is possible that people have view which depend upon the cirumstances - the use of the term phobic shuts down discussion

It clearly doesn’t shut down discussion, or change any of these ‘views’ however it serves as a reminder that these views are often harmful.

Thanks for the heads-up. I've just had a read. Definitely the DM brigade on that one!

The use of the term "phobic" in any circumstances and applied to any views is basically stating the fear is irrational and inbuilt. It is possible to have a view on this conflict without being phobic.

What happens when those views perpetuate unpleasant and harmful stereotypes? We wouldn’t tolerate those views relating to other minorities.

Really?
You don’t think unpleasant and harmful stereotypes are tolerated by people unless they’re about Muslims and Islam?
Tell the Black Communities, the Traveller Communities amd a dozen other minorities that they are not subject to harmful stereotyping.

I’m sorry, yes we do unfortunately tolerate a lot of unpleasant views about many ethnic minorities and it shouldn’t be seen as acceptable.

Really? I read three pages of it, and it was mostly people helpfully suggesting Halal recipes and a couple of clarifications around the terms revert vs convert. I quite possibly missed something offensive but the overwhelming tone was supportive wasn't it?

Underthinker, whilst there are many posts about food suggestions. There are quite a few with the stereotypical view she must be brain washed and that this is a parents worst nightmare.

OK

You've got me. I am 'pro Israel's

I am pro Israel if that means:

Accepting a right of a nation state to defence after a mass terrorist attack

Accepting the existence of the state of Israel and it's legitimacy

Acknowledging the supply of arms to Israel as it needs a defence against a number of regional enemies including Iran

And ......I am distressed by the images and stories coming out of the middle east. I am human

I think if we want sustained community relationships in the UK we can't start from a premise that Israel is a malign state which is hell bent on the destruction of the Palestinian people. That narrative leads to Israel and by extent it's people being portrayed in a simple negative light which is unfair.

We need to recognise feeling about civilian casualties in Gaza while simultaneously recognising the genuine fear of Jews in this country partly due to the only Jewish state coming under extremely hostile sloganising.

Can anyone criticise the below document which states the UK position until 2030.

Israel is strongly supported by the UK as evidenced by our immediate sympathy by our PM after the events of October 7th.

I am against anti Muslim sentiment but we need to start constructive debate which doesn't allow anti semitism as a price worth paying for unfettered protest against the Israeli leadership and military.

In my view such a stance is no way against a section of UK society or discriminatory.

We dont need to embed community division by angry protest that ultimately doesn't change the dial in terms of a foreign conflict

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.gov.uk/government/publications/2030-roadmap-for-uk-israel-bilateral-relations/2030-roadmap-for-uk-israel-bilateral-relations&ved=2ahUKEwjov4eV96WFAxVwV0EAHedVATIQFnoECCkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw379LIzn94IvAYceRO9K1Td

One person commented that she needs to get her children to the church before the unthinkable happens. And the general tone of being brainwashed and naive. I guess you're being extremely selective in the bits you're commenting on here.

@mids2019 if you were living in a place where everyday you risked dying, you and your children are starving and alot of your friends and family have been killed, your home destroyed. And everyday you wake up not knowing if you will survive to see the next or blown to pieces.
Would you expect your friends and family in other countries to just say yes very sad and continue with their lives or would you want them to speak up and do everything possible to raise awareness of your plight in the hope it will make a change?

@Scirocco

"There is a very strong anti-Muslim sentiment in many areas of society and government. So it would be inaccurate in the eyes of many to promote the current government and society as being 'not anti-Muslim'"

There is without doubt very strong anti Muslim sentiment in many areas of society and Govt just as there is very strong anti Jewish sentiment.

The issue I see is that the conflict in Gaza creates further polarisation and division in UK society (as if the division caused by Brexit wasn't enough) that fuels further anti Muslim and anti Jewish sentiments in UK society and Govt making the existing problem bigger.

There is currently no seeing the conflict from the other side. It is simply I'm right and you are wrong plus you are an evil terrorist supporter or evil genocide supporter for Kayan opposing view.

And what of the Palestinian Christians also trapped and dying in Gaza, East Jerusalem and the West Bank?

This isn’t a Muslims vs Jews war. It is Israelis vs Palestinians war where Israel has a full army/air force/navy and the Palestinians have nothing but illegally armed and formed grassroots terrorist groups that Israel apparently thinks all Palestinians are card and AK-47 carrying members of.

@mids2019 There has been a lot of criticism of that roadmap and that was before what is happening in Gaza now. The average UK citizen probably wasn't even aware that the UK was becoming besties with a lunatic Israeli govt.

@SummerFeverVenice Yes, there is very little concern for Palestinian Christians, which I think is tragic. They are probably the oldest Christian community in the world, and seem to suffer some hostility within Jerusalem itself. I'm always surprised that Christians abroad don't seem to express much concern for them, though I know the Pope has done. I also wonder what is happening in the Armenian community in Jerusalem.

They are currently trying to fight off a land grab by an Israeli settler developer.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/03/jerusalem-land-grab-armenian-community-fear-eviction-after-contentious-deal

The community has been in East Jerusalem for 1,600 years. Longer than the Normans currently populating the British ruling class and royal family…..

This. Spot on.