To wonder how anyone thought what was happening in Gaza was ok?

[march10th]

I see all these threads popping up about outrage about what's going on, especially now the UN and the US have started acknowledging the situation.
AIBU to wonder how people didn't see this from the beginning??

It's been months and thousands of people have been wiped out. As an Arab with close family links to Palestine, I think this is ethnic cleansing, similar to what Western countries have done to the indigenous people of Australia and America.

The UN is completely compromised. Some members of UNWRA were actually involved in the 7 Oct massacre. The whole ecosystem of human rights organisations are similarly anti-Israel as they have been for many, many decades.

Yesterday I just meant that clearly people have different positions on this and the discussions seems to go around in circles with people maintaining their respective positions.

Of course it is collective punishment- genocide even.

What I would like to know from you- is what do you expect to happen for Gaza and the few people left- when this so called 'war' is over? Do you believe in a two-State solution? If not, what do you think should happen to the few people left in Gaza?

@CaterhamReconstituted ok so if you are only getting your information from Israel and are discounting literally everyone else and every other organisation and nation there is no point in discussing things with you because you are getting one bias view of the situation. Maybe try and do a bit of further reading for yourself and engage in a bit of critical thinking every once in a while

An example of going round in circles. We can just agree we have different views. It is an anti-Semitic trope to accuse Israel of genocide.

Euh? i never said they were comparable, though the Nazis would have described the French resistance as genocidal terrorists.

The point is, that Israel cannot "destroy" Hamas, its just another iteration of Palestinian terrorism, which will be reborn either as Hamas 2.0 or another name.

Yes, & Hamas cannot destroy Israel either, the numbers simply aren't on their side, thank you for making my point, even the Nazi's couldn't destroy all Jewish peoples or anyone else for that matter.

Anyone who genuinely cares about the continued long term existence and safety of the state of Israel should be very concerned about what is happening in Gaza.

We can just agree we have different views
My views are based on fact not Israeli propaganda

It is an anti-Semitic trope to accuse Israel of genocide. I am accusing the IDF and the Israeli government of genocide and no that is not an anti-Semitic trope, why do you think it is?

Not if they are actually doing it...

Ps: at the point that virtually EVERY human rights organisation and major aid charity is against Israels actions, doesn't it even cross your mind that it might be because they are in the wrong? 😂

Is it now? Why’s that? I’m genuinely embarrassed for you. You’re really showing yourself up and have now resorted to flinging untrue and scurrilous accusations around because you can’t evidence your nonsense. And btw, are you saying the ICJ who have found plausible grounds for genocide are anti-Semitic. Maybe sit this one out now eh?

I think Israel can get to a point where Hamas are crippled. I agree that bombs can’t destroy an ideology. I think jihadism will be around for a very long time - there needs to be some kind of Reformation in the Muslim world before this is no longer a global problem.

I agree with the two-state solution but I don’t think it’s likely any time soon. The leadership in the Palestinian Territories do not care about statehood, they care about Jews living on what they consider to be Islamic lands.

nobody is buying this propaganda anymore - not even Biden et al! This is the first live streamed genocide in history - the entire world can see what is happening with the evidence of their own eyes. Don’t try and deflect and side track. You aren’t even answering direct questions anymore because you must know in your heart that you are on the wrong side of history.

Let’s agree to disagree

While I think it would of course be wrong to falsely 'convict' any country or military force of genocide, there have been serious allegations based on concerning information from multiple sources, there is an investigation in progress by the ICJ, and a report stating that an expert opinion is that there are reasonable grounds to consider this a genocide. A number of academic experts in human rights and genocide studies have also expressed similar concerns.

I understand that there have been allegations against some individuals working with UNRWA, but my understanding is that there have been counter-claims that some individuals were coerced into giving accounts, that there has been a lack of evidence presented to allow an investigation to be completed into the allegations, and that there hasn't been a conclusion in relation to the allegations. I'm also not clear how the alleged actions of a small number of people affiliated with a large organisation (a major employer/service provider) mean that internationally respected courts and organisations are compromised, especially if the actions of individual IDF soldiers are to be taken as not reflective of the wider position of the IDF, which is a much smaller organisation than the UN (which is huge)?

Fair enough - I don’t want to press or single out posters but will end by imploring you to please use your head and heart - watch the vids coming out from Palestine with an open heart and let’s all hope for peace urgently.

Oh no, not possible while people are being killed and starved to death in their thousands.

And what do you think should happen to all the illegal expansion and settlements that have been stolen since 1948? Do you not think Palestinians have the right to defend themselves and their ancestral lands.

And please, stop hiding behind this 'antisemitism'. It is just nonsense. Many of us would stand for a people being oblitarated off the face of humanity- by whomever.

Aid is going in though. If the Israelis stop some trucks it is because of security. So much propaganda!
I hope you understand the irony in this sentence.

Indeed. I suppose someone should inform David Cameron he's got it all wrong.

I understand people have passionate views, but we can still accept there are different perspectives here. I think what is happening in Gaza is awful and I pray for peace too. No disagreement with anyone about that - but I don’t agree Israel are wicked and want to ethnically cleanse or collectively punish Gaza. I think they are fighting a war against a true enemy, Hamas (not the Palestinian people).

I do think anti-Semitism comes into it, it is an old hatred that infects international organisations too. To accuse Israel of genocide is deliberately bringing up the most traumatic event in the history of Jewish persecution and throwing it in their faces. It is a blood libel which the Jews have been accused of for centuries. The passionate vitriol that is directed at Israel is also unique, I wonder why?

On settlements - a slightly different issue. Samaria and Judea are ancestral Jewish lands as well so it’s a complicated picture so I don’t quite agree with your characterisation of it. I know what the international community “recognises” but I think they are hopelessly biased against Israel.

And finally, Hamas are not a resistance force. They aren’t motivated by grievances against land or occupation. They are motivated by a fantatical hatred of the Jews. It’s ridiculous to compare them with organisations like the French resistance, as an earlier poster did.

Lasting peace and Palestinian statehood can be achieved when there is a viable partner in the Palestinian Territories whom the Israelis can negotiate with.

Sorry but no it isn't. Every nation on earth is capable of genocide. Sometimes, in history, the oppressed become the oppressor.
When we see others as the enemy, we risk becoming what we hate. When we oppress others, we end up oppressing ourselves. All of our humanity is dependent upon recognizing the humanity in others.”
― Desmond Tutu

I understand people have passionate views, but we can still accept there are different perspectives here.
This is not about perspectives here. You can explain why the Israeli government is behaving the way it is but you cannot excuse it.
I don’t agree Israel are wicked and want to ethnically cleanse or collectively punish Gaza.
The Israeli government has made their intentions very clear in regard to Gaza, blatantly I may add.
The passionate vitriol that is directed at Israel is also unique, I wonder why?
Maybe it is because of what is happening in Gaza?
On settlements - a slightly different issue. Samaria and Judea are ancestral Jewish lands as well so it’s a complicated picture.
Well, I am half Italian, off I go to reclaim my Roman ancestral home in the UK and in other countries.
And finally, Hamas are not a resistance force. They aren’t motivated by grievances against land or occupation. They are motivated by a fantatical hatred of the Jews.
Far from me to defend Hamas but you confuse Hamas and the Islamic Jihad.

Thanks. I think it’s clear how easy it is to drive into the sand - we clearly have different views. And we can accept that. The Roman comparison came up yesterday as well and it doesn’t work. Britain was not an ancestral land of Romans, the Romans conquered it. The Jews ARE an indigenous people of the lands that now form the West Bank. And no I I’ve not confused Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Hamas are also a jihadist group.

The Jews ARE an indigenous people of the lands that now form the West Bank.
They are some of the indigenous people of the lands as much as the Muslims and Christians are; therefore they have as much claim to the land as the the Jews, wouldn't you agree?

No Ancient Israel was established through conquering inhabited land.

1)They weren't there 'first'
2) Even if they were, since when has that become relevant to modern states
3) If 'who was there first' was relevant, then many modern countries have got a VERY VERY BIG problem, including the USA, Canada, Australia etc.

The Jews ARE an indigenous people of the lands that now form the West Bank
So do you support the illegal settlements? You can explain it away all you like but they are illegal no matter what angle you come at it from. By claiming we all just have different opinions on this is ridiculous they are "illegal" settlements

Jews and Arabs both have legitimate claims to that land. Can we agree on that at least? Or do you think it should be Jew-free? The question is how to both peoples can co-exist there. The Arabs have rejected a two-state solution several times. There is also no neat way to divide the land that will completely satisfy both sides. The great minds of international politics have not yet worked this conundrum out.

What land are you talking about? If you are talking about the illegal settlements well then no we can't agree to disagree, the law is clear not sure you're agree to disagree would stand up in court of law