To wonder how anyone thought what was happening in Gaza was ok?

[march10th]

I see all these threads popping up about outrage about what's going on, especially now the UN and the US have started acknowledging the situation.
AIBU to wonder how people didn't see this from the beginning??

It's been months and thousands of people have been wiped out. As an Arab with close family links to Palestine, I think this is ethnic cleansing, similar to what Western countries have done to the indigenous people of Australia and America.

It’s baffling. A your either with us or your against us mentality.

we’ve read thread after thread of it. People calling for a ceasefire are calling for the destruction of Israel and are pro Hamas. Everyone in Ireland is antisemitic… I’ve read it all here.

I think it’s because the Israeli authorities have succeeded in dehumanising Palestinian’s , reducing them to “human animals “ and suggesting their existence at all will lead to the destruction of Israel.

It feels like I'm being gas-lit constantly

Are you talking about Gaza/Gaza City-population approx 800,000 or Gaza/The Gaza Strip- population approx 2.2 million?

You're right my numbers are off- its been an emotional thread. 2.2 million on the strip, 1% have been murdered so far...

According to Ben-Gvir, Biden is now supporting Hamas. After all the help the US has provided to Israel, even he is now subjected to the slander and labelling of their propaganda.

‘Far-right minister accuses Biden of ‘tacitly supporting Israel’s enemies’: ReportIsrael’s National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir has accused President Biden of “tacitly supporting Israel’s enemies”, including Hamas’s leader in Gaza Yahya Sinwar and Democratic Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, The New York Times reports.
“Presently, Biden prefers the line of Rashida Tlaib and Sinwar to the line of Benjamin Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir,” he told the NYT. “I would have expected the president of the United States not to take their line, but rather to take ours.”
Ben-Gvir continued that Biden is “enormously mistaken” for attempting to pressure Israel over its war on Gaza.
“[Biden has] constantly sought to impose restrictions on Israel and talks about the rights of the other side, who include, I remind you, many terrorists who want to destroy us,” he said.’

Extremely juvenile view of the world, I hope he is no where near any negotiations if he views everything as either with us or against us. It also demonstrates once again how little they care for Palestinian civilian life when any attempt to help or reduce civilian casualties is viewed as supporting their enemies

Just to address your last paragraph:

90% or 55 million were killed the colonisation of the Americas by European nations.
Aboriginal people were estimated at between 300,000 and 900,000, no one really is sure.

Comparing those isn't really helpful.

War:

WW1 The most people died in numbers by Russia estimated between 2.3 million and 2.7 million.

WW2 The world lost almost 4% of its population. Germany and Austria around 11% of population in percentage terms.

War in Gaza 30,000 around 1% of the population of the Gaza Strip, I believe someone upthread said this.

I think that the sooner a negotiated ceasefire with release of all hostages and a new government running Gaza the better. Better for everyone.

Before the inevitable pile on. This addresses just the points made and doesn't mean that X Y Z and A B C so misinterpretations will be ignored. I cannot be bothered with the usual 'your saying, blah blah etc, (which I'm not by the way! )

All figures can be checked, online, I didn't check the uptrend figure for Gaza Strip approx 1%.

Indeed! He is completely closed off to the suffering of Palestinians, and his behaviour doesn’t do Israel any favours either. He is a danger to the stability of the Middle East and he shouldn’t have power or influence over the future of Palestine or Israel.
When I think of not just Israel, but other countries, there is something seriously flawed with the way power ends up in the hands of people like him. We need educating on how to make better decisions!

I am confused with your post. In one hand, you write, and I quote, "Comparing those isn't really helpful." and then, you proceed to make comparisons.
You cannot have it both ways.

@XRAYTHIS
As far as i can see, Israel's aim is the destruction and/or depopulation of Gaza.

Yes 4% of Germans died in 6 years of war, the IDF has killed over 1% in 5 months... at that rate, they will easily exceed 4% of Gazans killed in just 2 years.

But what as Israel achieved, in terms of its own long term security? nothing, their actions could easily lead to blacklisting of companies & countries supplying them with weapons, will lead to a new Hamas being formed out of the remnants of Gaza, even more hatred from neighbouring Arab countries, with weapons flowing into Gaza and the West bank, which are then turned on Israel.....

This campaign by the IDF will go down in history, not only as cruel and deadly but also as a lesson in how not to act after a terrorist attack.

The OP compared them. I showed factual numbers to illustrate that you cannot compare Gaza with The Americas and Aboriginal peoples as she did. Then showed war deaths since Gaza is a war situation. Hth

I agree with many of your points and really hope if doesn't go on and for peace fir everyone.

It was 4% of the world's population not Germany's population which coupled with Austria lost around 11% of people.

You know what? Stop bleating on about “no
easy choices” blah blah blah. It is easy to make a choice not to impose a famine on a people or simply kill them as a form of collective punishment. And if you believe that these poor people are being “inadvertently” (whoops, sorry!) killed then you are either stupid or it’s more sinister than that and you are spreading this knowing it’s a lie.

Why do people keep talking about a war. This is NO war- a war has two sides. There is only one at the moment.

Thanks for your reply.
You are right in saying that you cannot compare Gaza's death toll with others because you are not comparing like for like. When calculating death numbers, you need to take account of how they were counted, how long the war lasted, who was counted ( civilians/military personal), when the count happened and so on.
But It is now wildly recognised that Israel’s military is killing Palestinians at an average rate of 250 people a day, which massively exceeds the daily death toll of any other major conflict of recent years, according to Oxfam.
For comparison, the charity provided a list of average deaths per day in other conflicts since the turn of the century: 96.5 in Syria, 51.6 in Sudan, 50.8 in Iraq, 43.9 in Ukraine, 23.8 in Afghanistan, and 15.8 in Yemen.
This comparison is like for like that it is why I mentioned it.

It’s not collective punishment. It is military action against a group that wants to commit genocide against the Jewish people. The choice isn’t easy because there is a terrible price to war but Israel has a right to deal with that threat. Civilians are dying because this is a terrible but unavoidable cost of war in a densely populated area and where Hamas deliberately hide behind their own women and children.

@CaterhamReconstituted withholding and restricting life saving aid is collective punishment

Still not clear on if you’re being deliberately dense or just trying to obfuscate when you know that what you are saying is just rhetoric and empty phrases. Let’s try a different tack - do you see anything wrong at all with what Israel is doing/has done in Gaza? And if not, why do you think the majority of the world now thinks this is the case. Is the entire international community (including Israel’s closest allies) also wrong?

And that's our own government saying that Israel is the obstacle in allowing in sufficient aid. I'm sure you have read remarks made by David Cameon expressing his frustration at the Israeli government over this

Israel has a choice, no army, however brutal, has destroyed an ideology, even the Nazis couldn't destroy the French resistance or Tito's resistance fighters in Yugoslavia, neither could the Russians or the USA in Afghanistan, despite overwhelming military might.

Hamas may wish to kill all Israelis but it simply hasn't the means to do so, so using their (Hamas) statements on this as a defence for killing 34k plus (inc 20k children) is simply not valid.

You, i'm afraid, are just trying to justify the unjustifiable.

Aid is going in though. If the Israelis stop some trucks it is because of security. So much propaganda!

Of course it is terrible, it is war, there is a humanitarian cost to war. But it is false that Israel actually want to starve ordinary people. Why on earth would they want to do that? Hamas on the other hand do want to deliberately kill Jews, because hatred of Jews is at the core of their ideology. The Hamas charter is clear that it wants the destruction of Israel and the Jews.

Hamas is comparable to the French resistance? Really? Hamas are not a resistance force, they are genocidal terrorists. The fact that Israel are militarily superior is the only reason why they haven’t been wiped out. Hamas would do this to the Jews if they could.

@CaterhamReconstituted I appreciate that you didn't want to discuss with me yesterday, but it seems like you're discussing with others today so, could you please explain on what basis you think the UN reporters and representatives, aid agencies and other human rights organisations are wrong?

So much propaganda! Yes and you seem to be falling for a lot of it. Most posters here are getting their information on aid from the UN, WHO, WFP, US, EU and many other nations where are you getting your information on aid from?

But it is false that Israel actually want to starve ordinary people. Why on earth would they want to do that? Yes why? because they are mort certainly doing it

Hamas on the other hand do want to deliberately kill Jews, because hatred of Jews is at the core of their ideology. The Hamas charter is clear that it wants the destruction of Israel and the Jews.
What Hamas want and what Hamas can realistically do are not the same thing. Their charter (words) does not justify killing innocent civilians and children and starving an entire population. If you think it does I would consider you a genocide apologist