This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 2)

[Eyesopenwideawake]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/28/one-in-five-pregnant-women-in-gaza-clinic-are-malnourished-doctors-warn

@TextureSeeker "When you When you give one nation the OK to disregard international law, to disregard humanitarian law you are giving it to everybody. to disregard humanitarian law you are giving it to everybody."

This post is nonsense.

Nothing/no-one can "give one nation the OK to disregard international law",

If one nation does disregard international law, then they can be taken to task by various International Courts, if they fall under their jurisdiction. Bear in mind though, that none of these courts have any power of enforcement.

It could be argued that anyone selling arms to Saudi Arabia (to use against the Houthis) is supporting their appalling human rights record at home and the destruction they have visited on the people of Yemen - but I don't see any protests outside the Saudi Embassy.

@ConnieCounter "My mentioning that I was "upset" doesn't warrant your over the top responses."

It was you that brought it up.

People are allowed to comment respectfully on a open forum.

I would disagree that Social Media is the problem.

I would suspect that few of us are getting day-to-day accounts of the atrocities being committed in Yemen, the Congo, South Sudan, Myanmar & Somalia being fed to us by SM.
If we were, there might be different reactions instead of indifference to the innocent people caught up in these conflicts.

I think if anyone isn't upset about the deaths of innocent children and those deaths being defended and justified online, then the person not upset should probably step away from their keyboard until they have rediscovered empathy.

Maybe some counselling would be useful if people have trouble recognising that leaving helpless babies to die is wrong.

I was just explaining why I used language that apparently you found offensive.

I wasn't looking forward to another bout of posters blaming the parents, the nurses who were forced to leave and anyone really other than the IDF for what they did. The comments at the time were really offensive.

Obviously I'll know not to engage with you from now on if things are going to be taken so disingenuously.

So how does the presence/absence of a poster's empathy make one iota of difference to the situation in Gaza?

In several ways. For example...

Seeing people as human beings with human rights challenges the normalisation of the deaths of thousands. It challenges people to say "hold on, this can't be the only option", to act to encourage others to see that this doesn't have to be the only way. It can motivate people to try to help ease suffering of people in need - maybe through charitable donations, writing to MPs, demonstrating, being mindful about where their money is going, showing support and comfort for bereaved people here and elsewhere in the world, etc.

Political action can influence political powers' decision-making. Looking after grieving people can help give them hope and strength to keep going when their world has been shattered. Sending aid can feed a starving family. Volunteering can provide practical support.

Giving a damn is a necessary step towards becoming someone who leaves the world in a better place than they found it. That's not just limited to one conflict, but to all such situations wherever they occur.

It's quite sad to see so many people's hearts so closed off that they cannot even recognise the importance of caring about what happened to a helpless baby.

A young baby is one of the most vulnerable people in the world, especially a premature baby. They can't feed themselves, keep themselves warm, move etc - without an adult caring for them, they'll die. Many of us here are parents, so we will have held a tiny life in our hands and known how fragile that life is and how dearly we love them. We wouldn't want that life to end cold, hungry and alone.

Every baby is someone's child. Someone has almost certainly loved those tiny lives just like we love and have loved our own children.

And yet, people online defended and justified their deaths. That's certainly not what they would want for their own children, but it didn't matter that much when it was someone else's child.

That's a very dangerous path for a society to go down.

So, if someone has become so detached that they can't care about dead children, then they probably need to step away from the internet and take some action to rediscover their empathy for others.

It makes a difference because it represents a witness to these sufferings happening now in real time to real people, that means even people like Jo Biden begin to realise they better say something to Netanyahu.

It makes a difference that different humans reading here know that other humans believe it matters whether or not their fellow humans unnecessarily leave a baby alone to die in pain and suffering.

Of course they can. Biden got Israel to start aid flowing again and stop starving people. It's awful that it took the US threatening to remove support to make them allow aid in but it worked. If Biden would have shown some humanity sooner lives could have been saved some of their suffering could have been alleviated. No country is an island.

There is a poem that represents me

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

the politicians of the different governments can help on this scenario , and many of them are supporting Gaza as that’s what they feel is the right thing. Many citizens around the world are speaking up about not being happy with their governments behaviour about this conflict

How many beautiful souls have been killed because the system said they were a risk. It’s scary, and it’s here.

@EasterIssland "Many citizens around the world are speaking up about not being happy with their governments behaviour about this conflict"

That's interesting.

Strangely enough, I don't see the same levels of outrage about the conflicts in Yemen, Myanmar, Ethiopia and South Sudan.

So it seems to me that some people have selective empathy. eg: if you are Buddist or Christian in Myamar, your life is worth less then than a Muslim in Gaza.

Or perhaps it's a case of "no Jews, no news" ?

@Alstreena “So it seems to me that some people have selective empathy. eg: if you are Buddist or Christian in Myamar, your life is worth less then than a Muslim in Gaza.”

It’s not hard to have sympathy with all of the above.

But it is disappointing to see people use the suffering and lack of global attention on one group of people to justify the suffering of another group. I’ve seen many examples online of posters trying to deflect from the outrage in Gaza by raising the suffering of other groups around the world. We don’t have to pick and choose.

Do you know whether the British government is exporting arms to the countries you have mentioned ? And whether the British government is funding those countries governments to support the war ?

@Mags48 "But it is disappointing to see people use the suffering and lack of global attention on one group of people to justify the suffering of another group"

I would dispute that people are doing that, they are just pointing out the inconsistencies in people who claim to be empathetic.

"We don’t have to pick and choose."

No, but that's exactly what people are doing, focusing on Gaza and practically ignoring other conflicts.

As I said before, I blame Social Media for driving the agenda.

For balance :

In Yemen, the ongoing conflict has had devastating consequences for healthcare facilities. Hospitals have been repeatedly targeted, disrupting medical services for vulnerable civilians. Here is a notable incident:

• Marib Province Attacks (February 2020):In Yemen’s Marib province, specifically in the Majzer District, Al Jafra and Al Saudi hospitals were hit during clashes.
• These attacks left approximately 15,000 people, many of whom were displaced from other parts of the country, with severely limited options for medical care.
• The health facilities suffered significant damage, including the intensive care unit, occupational therapy unit, in-patient unit, and the pharmacy at Al Jafra, which serves as the main hospital in the area.
• The United Nations (UN) condemned these attacks as a blatant violation of international humanitarian law1.

I personally haven't seen this on any news channel.

@Alstreena so why not start a thread about it?

@Alstreena Thank you for sharing news about Yemen. I agree it’s important that we are all more educated about what is happening globally. But I do question the intention of posters I’ve seen online who use this approach to try to suppress condemnation of what is happening in Gaza.

If there weren't people defending what Israel is doing to Gaza there wouldn't be the same level of outrage. We would all just agree that it is terrible. If the British government condemned Israel and stopped sending them arms then you wouldn't see as many protests.

This conflict doesn't come up as much on Irish forums because we all pretty much agree it's fucking appalling. The same for protests, there aren't as many because our government agrees with us that it is fucking appalling. There are no tensions here because we all agree it is fucking appalling. Just like agree what is happening in Yemen or Myanmar or where ever you want to use for point scoring is fucking appalling.

If governments acted like they did with Russia and sanctioned Israel harshly there wouldn't be half the outrage that there is. The outrage comes not just from what is happening but from the minimising, the gaslighting and the disregard for human life that we are seeing from governments and from people who spend their days on forums and twitter and where ever else defending a violent occupying nation.

@EasterIssland "Do you know whether the British government is exporting arms to the countries you have mentioned ? And whether the British government is funding those countries governments to support the war ?"

(I don't actually see how that's relevant because people are dying no matter where the arms come from.)

However, to answer your question :

UK arms sales to Saudi Arabia totalled £1.1 billion in 2022
Arms to Israel totalled 42 million in the same time period.

As far as I am aware UK is not supplying arms to any other conflicts bar Ukraine/Russia.

HTH

Have you seen people saying what is happening in Yemen is fine? That there are actually some pretty bad people in Yemen, did you know that some of them believe in bad things? That hitting hospitals isn't always wrong, sometimes you have choice but to kill premature babies? What's the big deal anyway it's just collateral damage, it happens, it's war after all 🙄

Edited to say obviously I don't believe any of that. It looks awful written down but the above is what 1000s of posts on mumsnet and across the Internet have alluded to in Gaza. Not just keyboard warriors either, governments have too. And you wonder why people are outraged?

@TextureSeeker "Have you seen people saying what is happening in Yemen is fine?"

Nope.
Not seen a sausage about Yemen good or bad in the general media, I've had to dig up the info.
It's as if it doesn't exist.
A war has been going on for 10 years.
An estimated 377,000 people have been killed including 3,000 children
It has produced an unrelenting humanitarian crisis, with at least 8.4 million people at risk of starvation and 22.2 million people - 75% of the population - in need of humanitarian assistance, according to the UN. Severe acute malnutrition is threatening the lives of almost 400,000 children under the age of five.
Yemen's health system has all but collapsed, while the world's largest cholera outbreak has killed thousands.

As I said - selective empathy.

@Alstreena I’m curious about what you have done to raise awareness and protest against what’s happening in Yemen? Would you mind sharing with us.

Right so the people who are so appalled by what Hamas have done that they think Israel are doing the right thing, and are obsessed with letting us know that are also 'no Jews, no news' because they obviously aren't appalled by what is happening elsewhere either? So you are saying everybody that talks about this, governments, media are all what? Obsessed with Jews? The UK, the US, Germany, The Daily Mail, The Guardian, Biden, Cameron, you clearly since you are here all just have a weird obsession with Jews? That sounds like a mega conspiracy theory tbh.

The news about Yemen depends on where you look. Anti War activists have been protesting against the Saudi led Western back Imperialist attack on the Yemen for years.

Why is not widely known? Well Saudi Arabia is "our" friend, so we look the other way (whilst making sweet sweet profits from weapons sales - no mention of deaths there!). They also invest heavily in the UK.

Saudi Arabia was worried about Iran's influence in the region and used that as a justification to intervene in Yemen.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/18/the-saudis-couldnt-do-it-without-us-the-uks-true-role-in-yemens-deadly-war

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/17/uk-yemen-civil-war-arms-sales-saudi-arabia

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/20/uk-government-yemen-war-saudi-arabia-westminster

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/aug/27/soldier-backed-over-whitehall-protest-against-yemen-war

Well in fairness isn't that exactly what @Alstreena is doing here? She IS actively raising awareness by entering into a discussion about it and bringing it into the spotlight.

Not really, she's trying to use the existence of that conflict to say that people are bigoted for talking about a different conflict. I suspect Yemen only matters to some people when they can try to use it in attempts to shutdown other conversations.

What has been happening in Yemen during the war there has been terrible. A person would be entirely justified in starting a thread, raising awareness, etc. And it is entirely possible for people to care about that as well as about the Israel-Gaza conflict.

There are a number of factors why the Yemen conflict might not be getting the same level of publicity just now as the Israel-Gaza conflict.

Newness is a factor that's very relevant in news coverage. It's horrible to think, but as humans we get used to things pretty quickly. When Russia first invaded Ukraine (which is a very big deal!), it was all over the news, every broadcaster had a live page, updates and articles constantly appearing. Now, it often isn't in the headlines at all. Because news media want clicks and purchases, and people want novelty. The situation in Yemen started in 2014. While there are still articles published, it's no longer got the newness that draws people in and it's complicated by a decade of fighting, wrongs and ethical quandaries. In contrast, the Israel-Gaza conflict is still pretty new.

Technology and social media is another front in this battle in a way that it wasn't in Yemen in 2014. Both Israelis and Palestinians are often highly technologically literate, having grown up with the internet and social media - there are things that can be communicated online now that just weren't feasible 10 years ago. So, people around the world can now see the actions of soldiers, the struggles faced by people trying to stay alive, the bodies of the dead, in a way that just didn't happen 10 years ago.