This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 2)

[Eyesopenwideawake]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/28/one-in-five-pregnant-women-in-gaza-clinic-are-malnourished-doctors-warn

As a matter of fact, it doesn't matter whether they are civilians or not!

They're either PoWs*, or they are civilians according to the law. In neither case does an occupying force - or a party to a state-on-state conflict, for that matter - have the right to randomly kidnap, torture, and abuse people.

As a matter of "pedantry": so-called "irregular combatants" essentially have the status of civilians under IHL. Since the so-called "war on terror", some countries cough the USAcough have been using the wording "unlawful combatant", implying that IHL does somehow not apply to these people. This is utter bollocks and has been vehemently rejected by various international law experts as well as by the ICRC.

@HeidiInTheBigCity They're either PoWs*, or they are civilians according to the law. -

I think you will find that is incorrect.

Israel isn't an 'occupying force' in Gaza neither is this a State on State conflict because Hamas is classed as an armed non-state actor.

Therefore, as I said before, the conflict would not be governed by the entirety of the laws of war, but instead by the more limited Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions along with numerous customary law rules, which derive from general practices accepted as law.
Common Article 3, which applies to civilians and those no longer fighting, prohibits practices such as torture, summary execution and denial of a fair trial.

But Prisoner of War status only applies to conflicts between states so would not apply.

Hamas combatants are an irregular armed group. To be eligible for Prisoner of War status under Article 4a(2) of the Third Geneva Convention, members of an irregular armed group must adhere to very strict standards, both collectively and individually.
These includes distinguishing themselves from civilians and complying with the laws of war. Manifestly Hamas has not and does not meet these standards. As such, Israel could lawfully deny them Prisoner of War status upon capture.

Israel, the U.S. and others, label Hamas fighters as terrorists. Hamas’ recent acts – indiscriminately firing thousands of rockets into Israel, targeting, killing and taking civilians as hostages – are acts of terrorism in warfare and qualify as war crimes.

Right but Israel taking, torturing and disappearing UN workers and medics is wrong, don't you agree? We can't let it get to a point where in conflicts medics are taken whilst tending to patients, they are tortured and abused before being thrown back or disappearing altogether and the patients of these innocent medics are dying. You aren't excusing that behaviour are you? Or are you saying Israel can take who they like and do whatever they like to them because Hamas?

Israel not occupying Gaza is what Israel [!!!] says - in fact, its Supreme Court, in no way, shape or form being self-serving or anything - ruled on that question.

However, this is decidedly NOT the position taken by any other state. Including, for that matter, the UK. The term "occupied Palestinian territories" is almost universally [i.e. "outside Israel"] taken to mean "the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip" - with the Golan Heights also being considered "occupied" but "Syrian" not "Palestinian" and hence not part of the oPt.

"Terrorist", by the way, is not IHL terminology - so it doesn't matter much what anyone thinks from a legal perspective: you're either a combatant or a civilian. Israel should be bloody happy about this - major chunks of the world regard it as a "terrorist state". That is, however, equally as inconsequential in terms of IHL as "but Israel thinks ..."

And, yes, it is broadly accepted that PoW protections do not apply to irregular combatants - the more stringent ones for civilians do. That doesn't mean this is "fair" - but it is the dominant legal consensus.

@Littlebowiepeep

@SpryAmberSeal "and disappearing UN workers and medics is wrong, don't you agree?"

I don't know what this means.

This is good news but needs to happen on a frequent basis - UNWRA have been asking for this for weeks/months

Israel confirms ‘pilot project’ to deliver aid to northern Gaza by land

The Israeli military has said that a six-truck convoy carrying aid from the World Food Programme (WFP) has entered northern Gaza as part of a “pilot” project.

The military said the trucks “entered the northern Gaza Strip via the ’96th’ gate on the security fence” on Tuesday. It added this was done as “part of a pilot to prevent Hamas from taking over aid”.

The WFP said earlier that it had delivered food for 25,000 people in Gaza City, while a UN official told the Reuters news agency the convoy used an Israeli military road near the Gaza fence.

Also Morocco flew 40 tonnes of food aid via Ben Gurion airport in Israel to Kerem Shalom crossing making use of a pre-existing agreement with Israel like the one which enables Jordan to fly over Gaza air-dropping aid

And US has sent an additional 4 vessels to help build the temporary 'port'

That's good. Getting food in without Hamas taking it is vital. I think hamas do not care if people starve since they then use them in propaganda. The ordinary Palestinian people need help. Seeing some selling food aid is awful.

It's interesting that you picked up on the Israeli propaganda in the statement

“part of a pilot to prevent Hamas from taking over aid”.

UNWRA have been pleading for weeks/months to use this nice quiet road in Israel to avoid driving the length of Gaza along cratered damaged roads with diversions and re-routings, in an on-going bombardment/intermittent telecommunications and being stopped at IDF checkpoints where once stopped the trucks are at greater risk of looting whether by the starving locals or Hamas

Perhaps you didn't realise that the military road was in Israel

Or that Israel have used a new crossing after saying for months that this was not possible

.

Don't hamas take aid then? Is that invented?

I wasn't aware of the route and glad that its being used to get food in.

See my post above

.......greater risk of looting whether by the starving locals or Hamas

It's one factor - there are many others

Yes #2 isn’t taking place as both parties, Hamas and IDF, are ensuring civilians are kept in harms way.

The Gaza Strip is so crowded and much of it is levelled to piles of rubble. There isn’t the space for a battlefield per se and because it is asymmetric urban warfare there would never be a battlefield other than the block by block, street by street, home by home type of warfare going on. The difference between Gaza and other similar urban warfare is that the civilians are being trapped there in with the terrorist group by the attacking army as much as they are being used as shields by the terrorists.

Thank you this is very informative.

Wondered where all the parachutes for the air-drops were coming from

Reuters reports foreign ministry spokesperson Öncü Keçeli told the media at a briefing in Ankara that Turkey had sent 9,000 tons of medical equipment and aid for infants, as well as many parachutes to Jordan for the airdrops, but added these were not enough to alleviate the struggle of Palestinian people in Gaza.

Do you have any proof about it ?

US envoy: Israel hasn’t provided ‘specific evidence’ Hamas is stealing aid shipments

https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-envoy-israel-hasnt-provided-specific-evidence-hamas-is-stealing-aid-shipments/amp/

Air dropped aid is unsecured aid. It is the one type of aid delivery totally vulnerable to being stolen and will always benefit only the most able and powerful over the most vulnerable and in need. Air dropped aid is a gift to Hamas.

As Israel does not want aid to fall into the hands of Hamas (literally!) then they should let it in via a crossing by where it is needed and let go over ground and under the supervision of themselves or a UN or other aid agency.

The fact that many counties and now even the US has resorted to air dropped aid must worry Israel to no end as that is definitely delivering aid directly to Hamas.

Haaretz today

“Israeli Police Fatally Shoot a 13-year-old Who Launched Fireworks at Them in East Jerusalem”
“According to a resident of the refugee camp, the fireworks were not aimed at the officers and did not pose a threat to them. National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir said in response to the incident that he 'salutes' the officers for their handling of the event”
Nir HassonJosh Breiner
Mar 12, 2024 10:35 pm

…………………………..

“Israel's AG Issues Warning After Ben-Gvir's Support for Cop Who Shot Dead 13-year-old Palestinian”

“Ben-Gvir shows up at police station where officer is being investigated, says 'hero' did an exemplary job; Attorney General Gali Baharav-Miara: Any interference in the investigation of the case is unlawful”
Chen Maanit
Mar 13, 2024 1:22 pm IST

…………………

So the awful Ben Givr broke the law and just gets a slight reprimand.

Ah so those lovely hamas fighters who celebrated a killing spree and won't release hostages or bodies wouldn't lower themselves to pinch food aid. They just nip off to the shops to purchase what they need leaving all the aid for the people. Misunderstood fluffy men that they are. Or maybe they have their own food safely stored for themselves, they must eat something. So they either have plenty whilst people starve or they pinch food aid, got to keep strong for their 'resistance ' and raping.

Seems on mn there are many posters who make numerous claims about what Israel do and yet want proof of any and everything hamas do, and even when proof is offered they tend not to believe. Interesting, seen lots it's a bit boring now.

No wonder a diminishing number of posters on the Middle East threads just the same old posters posting hundreds and hundreds of threads saying similar things. Any suggestions of wrongdoing jumped on unless it's Israel wrongdoing of course. 🙄

Sorry do you have any proof about your previous comment or not?

“Don't hamas take aid then? Is that invented?”

US says they’ve not received the proof from Israel about it.

ive asked you a question. I’d appreciate if you replied to it without attacking those that take part on this board

Of course the fireworks weren't aimed at Israelis and of course the boy playing with them meant no harm they were probably celebrating something. Poor child shot and died. Maybe during a war keep fireworks away from children near soldiers? Soldiers need to check if party taking place before they get trigger happy.

On the same day a soldier and a guard were stabbed at a checkpoint. Palestinian person approached and they let get too close to them. I imagine given those types of attacks then on high alert when anyone comes near. Al Jazerra news ran this story today.

Feels like more and more of these incidents will keep occuring.

Is west bank at war ?

Well brave elderly woman claimed they do. Rare criticism of Hamas though.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/08/elderly-gazan-accuses-hamas-stealing-aid-rare-criticism/

“Celebrating something” as in Ramadan? Ramadan is like bonfire night, or new years or 4th of July….fireworks are ubiquitous.

Just like others do I'll now post a claim that someone makes , people appear to believe some random claims against idf so why not against hamas?

https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2024/03/07/three-videos-by-tom-gross-on-food-in-gaza/