Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East
Thread gallery
45
Toastlurker · 15/02/2024 18:49

starfleet · 15/02/2024 11:27

What compromises do the Palestinians have left to make? They have been ousted from their homes, rounded up and penned into a space the size of Heathrow Airport, their whole infrastructure is close to being completely decimated, their families killed, they are by all accounts now being pushed in to the Sinai desert into land that indigenous Egyptians have been forcefully been emptied from.

Israels aim was the total annihilation of Palestine. They will not make compromises and will not stop. BN has said this time and time again.

they are by all accounts now being pushed in to the Sinai desert into land that indigenous Egyptians have been forcefully been emptied from.

Emptied nearly ten years ago, by the Egyptian authorities. This post seems to imply the Egyptian government’s 2014/15 clearing and creation of a buffer zone along Egypt/Gaza border are recent events related to this current conflict? Apologies if that’s not what you meant.

starfleet · 15/02/2024 19:11

@Toastlurker apologies if that's how it read. I know it isn't a recent thing. Thank you for clarifying for others reading.

FOJN · 15/02/2024 19:12

They're not even pretending to be interested in a peaceful settlement are they?

It's just a big fuck you to anyone calling for some restraint.

ScrollingLeaves · 15/02/2024 19:17

Quds News Network
“Knesset Member Ofir Sofer and the Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich announced a plan to provide financial aid to new immigrants from Western countries settling in Israel's north, south, and West Bank, amid increasing interest in immigration from Jewish communities in France, Britain, America, and Canada”.

Someone on a thread asked why anyone thinks of Israel as being ‘Western’. This is why I do to quite an extent.

Meanwhile, somewhere I saw an Israeli complaint of how outrageous it was that the Palestinians wanted descendants of those who been forced out to be allowed back too.

https://twitter.com/QudsNen

FOJN · 15/02/2024 19:22

Meanwhile, somewhere I saw an Israeli complaint of how outrageous it was that the Palestinians wanted descendants of those who been forced out to be allowed back too.

Right of return for me but not for thee.

Remember Israel is not an apartheid state!

ConnieCounter · 15/02/2024 19:46

They're sick fuckers.

Kindatired · 15/02/2024 19:56

@stomachameleon
There is no verdict yet from the the ICJ because the mills of justice grind slowly and it will be some time.
The ICJ instructed Israel to provide humanitarian aid and it is doing the opposite.
But getting back to the thread title here, I’d like to share this article from the Journal which has a great team of rigorous young investigative journalists
https://www.thejournal.ie/gaza-report-pregnancy-hospital-6298447-Feb2024/

Giving birth in Gaza: 'I resorted to instructional videos on social media'

On the ground in Rafah, a reporter writing for The Journal speaks with pregnant women and new mothers.

https://www.thejournal.ie/gaza-report-pregnancy-hospital-6298447-Feb2024/

Justpontificating · 15/02/2024 20:15

stormy4319trevor · 15/02/2024 15:10

Thank you @Efacsen I find it strange I hear so little of actual battles, though plenty about strikes on hospitals etc. So, in theory, there is still some fighting going on.

🤣🤣🤣
because the IDF said so

stormy4319trevor · 15/02/2024 20:37

Justpontificating · 15/02/2024 20:15

🤣🤣🤣
because the IDF said so

I've seen no evidence one way or the other, but that is the usual way of it. Who knows? Another odd thing is why bomb a hospital because you think the bodies of hostages might be there. You'd think they would just have a look in the morgue, not blow it up. So much does not make sense.

PeasfullPerson · 15/02/2024 20:55

From this article in the Guardian

‘Several veterans said they had not personally seen women or children killed or wounded, despite both groups comprising the majority of Gaza’s victims, which is possibly a consequence of most of these casualties being inflicted by long-range artillery or airstrikes some distance from most ground troops.’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/08/israeli-soldiers-idf-gaza-fighting-disaster-area?ref=upstract.com

‘The destruction is massive … It’s a disaster area’: Israeli soldiers speak about fighting in Gaza

Exclusive: IDF troops shed light on their experience of fighting in the territory, where Palestinian casualties have passed 27,700

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/08/israeli-soldiers-idf-gaza-fighting-disaster-area?ref=upstract.com

Justpontificating · 15/02/2024 20:58

stormy4319trevor · 15/02/2024 20:37

I've seen no evidence one way or the other, but that is the usual way of it. Who knows? Another odd thing is why bomb a hospital because you think the bodies of hostages might be there. You'd think they would just have a look in the morgue, not blow it up. So much does not make sense.

Destruction of all infrastructure.
The Israeli grand plan

Justpontificating · 15/02/2024 21:04

PeasfullPerson · 15/02/2024 20:55

From this article in the Guardian

‘Several veterans said they had not personally seen women or children killed or wounded, despite both groups comprising the majority of Gaza’s victims, which is possibly a consequence of most of these casualties being inflicted by long-range artillery or airstrikes some distance from most ground troops.’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/08/israeli-soldiers-idf-gaza-fighting-disaster-area?ref=upstract.com

What a loud of bollocks that is.
This is what most people in the uk are reading about the war.
A bunch of lies with the IDF pretending the give a shit that Palestinians homes and lives are gone.
This is to Justify UKs support for Israel.

Justpontificating · 15/02/2024 21:07

Justpontificating · 15/02/2024 21:04

What a loud of bollocks that is.
This is what most people in the uk are reading about the war.
A bunch of lies with the IDF pretending the give a shit that Palestinians homes and lives are gone.
This is to Justify UKs support for Israel.

Ps.
Jason Burke the journalist of the guardian article has written extensively on Islamic extremism.
Says it all really.

ConnieCounter · 15/02/2024 21:31

PeasfullPerson · 15/02/2024 20:55

From this article in the Guardian

‘Several veterans said they had not personally seen women or children killed or wounded, despite both groups comprising the majority of Gaza’s victims, which is possibly a consequence of most of these casualties being inflicted by long-range artillery or airstrikes some distance from most ground troops.’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/08/israeli-soldiers-idf-gaza-fighting-disaster-area?ref=upstract.com

Ugh. That was hard to read. Confirms that they consider every man to be a Hamas fighter and that they target civilians. Which we knew already of course but some people here still argue that it's not the case.

ScrollingLeaves · 15/02/2024 21:35

Justpontificating · 15/02/2024 21:07

Ps.
Jason Burke the journalist of the guardian article has written extensively on Islamic extremism.
Says it all really.

It was odd he quoted the IDF soldiers saying they never see the dead women and children (because they are hit from afar by bombs and shells) and the soldier reported this made it easier for them. He could have asked what they thought about seeing all the very many killed and wounded women and children on television news.

Or don’t the IDF soldiers watch?

I suppose he felt lucky to speak to them at all and didn’t want to alienate them.

FOJN · 15/02/2024 21:42

I don't think the Guardian article flatters the IDF at all. It makes them look completely incompetent.

The excessive use of bombs and heavy artillery to destroy everything within a large radius of a perceived threat has just created more places for Hamas to hide therefore increasing rather than decreasing IDF casualties.

It admits that tunnels are everywhere even under wasteland which confirms what many of us have thought for a long time; such an extensive network of tunnels in a relatively small area cannot help but run near or under all sorts of buildings.

He says "several veterans" had not seen women or children killed but does not tell us how many soldiers were interviewed. I usually find that approach inadvertently highlights what isn't being said rather than bringing the focus to the misdirection.

The female soldiers were often better because they were serious and there was no "idiot business", rather suggests some of the young men think it's all a bit of a laugh.

That they remained unaware of civilians hiding in basements gives us a clue about their competence in clearing an area and may explain why they are failing so badly at accurately locating tunnels.

The article admits that the destruction in some areas is so complete that there is nothing for Gazans to return to.

In short they excel at shooting each other but otherwise are fucking clueless, more carnage is sure to follow.

What an absolute disgrace of an army. Professional combat veterans must be embarrassed for them.

FOJN · 15/02/2024 21:54

ConnieCounter · 15/02/2024 21:31

Ugh. That was hard to read. Confirms that they consider every man to be a Hamas fighter and that they target civilians. Which we knew already of course but some people here still argue that it's not the case.

“There are no tactics. We take some fire and identify a target. For an hour we unload everything we’ve got, our own weapons, tanks, anything we can get. Then we advance and find dead terrorists,”

“You do see a lot of dead Hamas fighters, or men anyway...."

Yup that's exactly what they said.

Justpontificating · 15/02/2024 21:55

ScrollingLeaves · 15/02/2024 21:35

It was odd he quoted the IDF soldiers saying they never see the dead women and children (because they are hit from afar by bombs and shells) and the soldier reported this made it easier for them. He could have asked what they thought about seeing all the very many killed and wounded women and children on television news.

Or don’t the IDF soldiers watch?

I suppose he felt lucky to speak to them at all and didn’t want to alienate them.

I can see why he’d want to keep in with them.
But this is pure propaganda and all a lot of people will read and believe.
It is very telling given his previous works. he s biased towards Israel so of course he’d report this trash

PeasfullPerson · 15/02/2024 22:08

I actually thought it showed the IDF in a bad light and I was impressed that any of them could be encouraged to talk to the Guardian. I thought that it was more reserved than their normal style, but that the message of how incompetent and callous the IDF are was clearly there, even if it wasn’t as explicit as it could be. Also, that of relevance to what was being discussed, it seemed to imply that there weren’t many battles being fought, and that a lot was being done by long range means.

Off to read about Jason Burke!

starfleet · 16/02/2024 11:26

The iof really do not give a f*ck do they? They have been given carte blanche to do whatever they want to de-humanise Palestinian people. I don't even know why I'm shocked any more. When you think it couldn't get any worse they manage to top it....

This is the reality of what Israeli is doing.
fleurneige · 16/02/2024 13:31

Justpontificating · 15/02/2024 20:58

Destruction of all infrastructure.
The Israeli grand plan

Journalists are NOT allowed into Gaza by the IDF. They are only allowed when accompanied and taken to very specific locations under surveillance. Of course you will not se the reality of what is happening in Gaza - no-one is allowed to witness. And it is very difficult for any footage to come out from Gaza.

FOJN · 16/02/2024 13:37

starfleet · 16/02/2024 11:26

The iof really do not give a f*ck do they? They have been given carte blanche to do whatever they want to de-humanise Palestinian people. I don't even know why I'm shocked any more. When you think it couldn't get any worse they manage to top it....

Why do they continue to document their crimes and breaches of international law.

Article 16 of the United Nations Convention Against Torture states:

Ban on cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment

"Article 16 requires parties to prevent "other acts of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment which do not amount to torture as defined in article 1" in any territory under their jurisdiction. Because it is often difficult to distinguish between cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment and torture, the Committee regards Article 16's prohibition of such act as similarly absolute and non-derogable".

And our government still claims to believe this is self defence.

HeidiInTheBigCity · 16/02/2024 13:51

FOJN · 16/02/2024 13:37

Why do they continue to document their crimes and breaches of international law.

Article 16 of the United Nations Convention Against Torture states:

Ban on cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment

"Article 16 requires parties to prevent "other acts of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment which do not amount to torture as defined in article 1" in any territory under their jurisdiction. Because it is often difficult to distinguish between cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment and torture, the Committee regards Article 16's prohibition of such act as similarly absolute and non-derogable".

And our government still claims to believe this is self defence.

Because they quite literally do not think of their actions as "wrong"! They have so thoroughly de-humanised Palestinians in their own thinking that they genuinely believe it is "cool", "fun" or even "good".

maudelovesharold · 16/02/2024 14:17

There is suffering in Gaza because Hamas’ psychopathic leaders launched a war and are deliberately fighting it from inside and under civilian buildings.

Deliberately? Gaza is 25 miles long, 3 - 7 miles wide, and with a population of 2 million is, therefore, one of the most densely populated countries in the world. Gaza is rammed with people. Logistically, you’d be hard pressed not to have to fight a war from inside and under civilian buildings. The Israelis have got the beleaguered civilians of Gaza herded and corralled in the most horrendous conditions with no way out, and are proceeding to bomb them to oblivion. That’s why there is suffering in Gaza. HTH.

starfleet · 16/02/2024 18:12

There are no words left.

This is the reality of what Israeli is doing.
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread