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Conflict in the Middle East
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45
BackandForthRoundandRound · 13/02/2024 07:36

Blackkittypoo · 13/02/2024 07:34

Well I can't see it.
You've obviously never been in a casualty dept.
If the guy was ' bleeding out' all those soldiers would be paddling in blood. In addition, the 'casualty' would have lost consciousness in the time that clip was running. People can bleed out in 2 mins without medical attention.

As I said 'creative journalism'.

I'm not surprised that you supposedly cannot see it. Considering that you have also attempted to deny the realities of what is happening in Palestine.

BackandForthRoundandRound · 13/02/2024 07:39

Blackkittypoo · 13/02/2024 07:34

Well I can't see it.
You've obviously never been in a casualty dept.
If the guy was ' bleeding out' all those soldiers would be paddling in blood. In addition, the 'casualty' would have lost consciousness in the time that clip was running. People can bleed out in 2 mins without medical attention.

As I said 'creative journalism'.

As for your claim regarding "bleeding out" no, it all varies greatly. Someone can have a haemorrhage and not pass out within "two minutes" some can have a haemorrhage for hours and not "lose consciousness" it all varies completely.

As for your claim regarding a casualty department, you have no idea what I do or do not do. Instead you are attempting to cast doubt yet again. If you had any experience then you would be well aware of the facts regarding when someone happens to "lose consciousness"

BackandForthRoundandRound · 13/02/2024 07:40

Blackkittypoo · 13/02/2024 07:28

  1. Children may throw stones but how are IDF to know they aren't throwing hand grenades?

2."The Israeli Foreign Ministry said it had responded to a report by the U.N. children's agency UNICEF in March on ill-treatment of Palestinian minors and questioned whether the U.N. committee's investigation covered new ground.
"If someone simply wants to magnify their political bias and political bashing of Israel not based on a new report, on work on the ground, but simply recycling old stuff, there is no importance in that," spokesman Yigal Palmor said.
The report by the U.N. Committee on the Rights of the Child acknowledged Israel's national security concerns and noted that children on both sides of the conflict continue to be killed and wounded, but that more casualties are Palestinian."

3.These are allegations. What investigations have been done?

4.See 1, In response to the section claiming: “Many protesters threw rocks or other projectiles but were posing no threat to the lives of well-protected Israeli soldiers when they were shot,” Laufer said : “This thinking both excuses violence, while creating a baseless standard that prevents Israeli forces from protecting themselves and others.”

5.That link is behind a paywall.

Imagine trying to defend/make excuses for torture of children

FOJN · 13/02/2024 07:41

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BackandForthRoundandRound · 13/02/2024 07:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Apparently not. I did wonder if this included the leg position also. I guess it didn't due to the post.

Blackkittypoo · 13/02/2024 08:09

BackandForthRoundandRound · 13/02/2024 07:39

As for your claim regarding "bleeding out" no, it all varies greatly. Someone can have a haemorrhage and not pass out within "two minutes" some can have a haemorrhage for hours and not "lose consciousness" it all varies completely.

As for your claim regarding a casualty department, you have no idea what I do or do not do. Instead you are attempting to cast doubt yet again. If you had any experience then you would be well aware of the facts regarding when someone happens to "lose consciousness"

You post is more than a little uninformed,

https://study.com/academy/lesson/symptoms-of-bleeding-out.html#:~:text=Bleeding%20out%20can%20be%20caused%20by%20a%20bad%20cut%2C%20broken,and%20stab%20or%20gunshot%20wounds.

A haemorrhage can vary from anything from a paper cut finger to a gunshot wound.

You could 'bleed out' from the second but not from the first.

Blackkittypoo · 13/02/2024 08:12

BackandForthRoundandRound · 13/02/2024 07:40

Imagine trying to defend/make excuses for torture of children

Imagine trying to promulgate unfounded allegations.

Fussandmisery · 13/02/2024 08:14

Imagine trying to promulgate unfounded allegations.
🙄

Dulra · 13/02/2024 08:20

Blackkittypoo · 13/02/2024 07:28

  1. Children may throw stones but how are IDF to know they aren't throwing hand grenades?

2."The Israeli Foreign Ministry said it had responded to a report by the U.N. children's agency UNICEF in March on ill-treatment of Palestinian minors and questioned whether the U.N. committee's investigation covered new ground.
"If someone simply wants to magnify their political bias and political bashing of Israel not based on a new report, on work on the ground, but simply recycling old stuff, there is no importance in that," spokesman Yigal Palmor said.
The report by the U.N. Committee on the Rights of the Child acknowledged Israel's national security concerns and noted that children on both sides of the conflict continue to be killed and wounded, but that more casualties are Palestinian."

3.These are allegations. What investigations have been done?

4.See 1, In response to the section claiming: “Many protesters threw rocks or other projectiles but were posing no threat to the lives of well-protected Israeli soldiers when they were shot,” Laufer said : “This thinking both excuses violence, while creating a baseless standard that prevents Israeli forces from protecting themselves and others.”

5.That link is behind a paywall.

@Blackkittypoo

  1. Children may throw stones but how are IDF to know they aren't throwing hand grenades?

I find this point particularly disturbing to be honest. We shoot at children because they might be throwing hand grenades not stones? Where in the modern developed world would that work as a defence?

Blackkittypoo · 13/02/2024 08:22

Dulra · 13/02/2024 08:20

@Blackkittypoo

  1. Children may throw stones but how are IDF to know they aren't throwing hand grenades?

I find this point particularly disturbing to be honest. We shoot at children because they might be throwing hand grenades not stones? Where in the modern developed world would that work as a defence?

Edited

It would be a defence if it was judged to be a reasonable assumption.

Auvergne63 · 13/02/2024 08:23

BackandForthRoundandRound · 13/02/2024 07:40

Imagine trying to defend/make excuses for torture of children

I don't have the words to describe how I felt reading this.
What is it going to take for some to acknowledge that the Israeli government and the idf have become the monsters they despise?

Dulra · 13/02/2024 08:26

Blackkittypoo · 13/02/2024 08:22

It would be a defence if it was judged to be a reasonable assumption.

Reasonable assumption and a dead child lovely

Blackkittypoo · 13/02/2024 08:39

Dulra · 13/02/2024 08:26

Reasonable assumption and a dead child lovely

Don't get on at me and get sarcastic - I don't make the laws about self-defence.

You asked a question and I answered it, if you don't like the answer take it up with the IDF, or their Court Martial System or whatever they use.

BackandForthRoundandRound · 13/02/2024 08:51

Auvergne63 · 13/02/2024 08:23

I don't have the words to describe how I felt reading this.
What is it going to take for some to acknowledge that the Israeli government and the idf have become the monsters they despise?

I honestly don't think they will. It is that deeply rooted into their being.

The only thing that I could see making them change their mind is if something terrible happened to either someone they know or a member of their own family. (That is not meant in a wishing harm to anyone whatsoever so if it reads that way I apologise)

BackandForthRoundandRound · 13/02/2024 08:52

Dulra · 13/02/2024 08:20

@Blackkittypoo

  1. Children may throw stones but how are IDF to know they aren't throwing hand grenades?

I find this point particularly disturbing to be honest. We shoot at children because they might be throwing hand grenades not stones? Where in the modern developed world would that work as a defence?

Edited

Exactly. Also they shoot at children when they can clearly see that they are throwing stones and NOT grenades! That is utter madness to even try to excuse. Trying to compare the two is ludicrous.

Dulra · 13/02/2024 08:52

Blackkittypoo · 13/02/2024 08:39

Don't get on at me and get sarcastic - I don't make the laws about self-defence.

You asked a question and I answered it, if you don't like the answer take it up with the IDF, or their Court Martial System or whatever they use.

I am not being sarcastic, the original point you made which I had an issue with and found to be unreasonable and concerning was
Children may throw stones but how are IDF to know they aren't throwing hand grenades?
I just find stating this as an excuse for shooting at children abhorrent to be honest. That has nothing to do with any laws about self defence it was an explanation you gave to justify the IDF shooting at children. If you don't stand by it delete it.

You asked a question and I answered it, if you don't like the answer take it up with the IDF, or their Court Martial System or whatever they use.
No idea why you suggest I do this? It was with your comment I have an issue with

Fussandmisery · 13/02/2024 08:55

It’s just infuriating - children are throwing stones but let’s pretend they’re hand grenades and shoot them 😡

BackandForthRoundandRound · 13/02/2024 08:55

Blackkittypoo · 13/02/2024 08:12

Imagine trying to promulgate unfounded allegations.

The irony is strong.

Now you have tried to excuse shooting of children... There is a clear difference between hand grenades and stones. Even to the visually impaired. The Israeli Occupation shoot children when they can clearly see what they have.

They have a blatant disregard for Palestinian lives.

Which is being excused time and time again. I'm curious as to why? Why try to make excuses for lost lives? Is it because they are viewed as being less?

BackandForthRoundandRound · 13/02/2024 08:57

Fussandmisery · 13/02/2024 08:55

It’s just infuriating - children are throwing stones but let’s pretend they’re hand grenades and shoot them 😡

It is beyond me as to how anyone can even try to compare the two.

These are children we are talking about.

You may or may not have children. However, I'm sure you may have relatives who happen to have children. Or a friend who does.

Imagine it happening to one of them.

But even that won't change what is being said.

BackandForthRoundandRound · 13/02/2024 08:58

Blackkittypoo · 13/02/2024 08:22

It would be a defence if it was judged to be a reasonable assumption.

No. It is quite clear they have stones. You are aware of the weapons that the Israeli Occupation have, yes? They can actually see.

Trying to defend the murder of children is horrendous. It really is.

BackandForthRoundandRound · 13/02/2024 09:01

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3SAzElrIrK/?igsh=MXJjejhqZGl4ZG4xdg== Meanwhile in the West Bank we have blindfolded men and dancing Israeli Occupation members...

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3SAzElrIrK?igsh=MXJjejhqZGl4ZG4xdg%3D%3D

FOJN · 13/02/2024 09:02

Blackkittypoo · 13/02/2024 08:09

You post is more than a little uninformed,

https://study.com/academy/lesson/symptoms-of-bleeding-out.html#:~:text=Bleeding%20out%20can%20be%20caused%20by%20a%20bad%20cut%2C%20broken,and%20stab%20or%20gunshot%20wounds.

A haemorrhage can vary from anything from a paper cut finger to a gunshot wound.

You could 'bleed out' from the second but not from the first.

I'm not sure what your post is informed by but it's certainly not experience.

You can debate the extent of that man's injuries until the cows come home, I have neither the time or inclination to give you a tutorial on the causes and treatment of bleeding this morning. What is very clear is that several soldiers from the world's "most moral army" are standing around an injured man and making no effort to render aid.

Hopefully you won't be surprised to learn that soldiers are trained in the basic methods of controlling bleeding and the injured man needs either direct pressure or a tourniquet for his bleeding leg wound.

BackandForthRoundandRound · 13/02/2024 09:02

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3RdP9doLvb/?igsh=MW5oenhpYmF2N3dzMA== And we have Biden saying "Our military occupation in Rafah"

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3RdP9doLvb?igsh=MW5oenhpYmF2N3dzMA%3D%3D

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