This is the reality of what Israeli is doing.

[Eyesopenwideawake]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/10/im-so-scared-please-come-hind-rajab-six-found-dead-in-gaza-12-days-after-cry-for-help

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0HR6VBoZSe/?igsh=N3l1OGh0amJoYmkw The Israeli Occupation "defending" itself against a school bus full of children (from November last year)

Right, so what do you think happened last night? And what are your sources? Or do you not need any because pure conjecture is sufficient in some cases, just not others?

The numbers speak for themselves... there will be more dead and injured to be added to this figure

Do you dispute the number of dead and injured people in Gaza?

Do you dispute the level of destruction that has been done to key infrastructure?

To me these are the most important things to focus on. These actions are inexcusable.

I would say that the sheer destruction shown is not excusable at all. It is deliberate destruction designed to make it a wasteland.

Deliberate killing of civilians. Children. Babies. Women. Men. Targeted killing of pregnant mothers. That is not acceptable whatsoever.

No mainstream impartial news agency has as yet reported the hostage rescue in detail and are purposefully including terms "Israel says", "IDF reported" in their reports. The reason they are doing that is because exactly what happened has not yet been independently verified. I am not sure why you expect us to think any differently then credible independent journalists. I have seen footage of Israeli journalists and their views so will give anything they report on a miss thanks.

I certainly dispute that all the dead and injured are innocent civilians, and also that they were all killed by the IDF. I'm certain some will have eg been killed by rockets misfiring from within Gaza or because of explosive devices placed by terrorists in buildings as a booby trap. Having said that, I don't dispute that far too many innocent civilians have been killed, injured or lost their loved ones as well as their homes and that the majority of that is because of the actions IDF have taken.

Do you dispute that a lot of the key infrastructure that has been destroyed has also been used by terrorists?

@Dulra and what mainstream impartial news agency has provided proof of the exact circumstances of Hind's beyond tragic killing? I've only seen "PRCS say" but without there being any actual evidence seeing as they weren't actually there at the time.

My whole point is that the need for evidence goes both ways so please stop ridiculing those who ask for it just because it doesn't suit you.

I thought it was 67 dead? Maybe decide if you want to go with facts or terrorist propaganda. Let me know which you decide!

@Humdingerydoo
The issue with peoples response to the Hind tragedy was that they were making up potential scenarios in the absence of definitive proof of what happened. That is very different to waiting for information to be independently verified. I am not disputing that 2 Israeli hostages' were rescued I am questioning whether the IDF tried to minimise civilian casualties in the operation, I am not making up other scenarios.

Mortality figures always rise after airstrikes because victims die of their injuries - particularly so when hospitals are over-flowing and there is a lack of staff

A good example of this was the casualty figures after the attack on a refugee camp on xmas eve

@Humdingerydoo

I am pleased you say that too many innocent civilians have been killed.

I believe that the destruction of key infrastructure has been disproportionate and further punished the civilian population of Gaza. We would never accept that level of destruction within our own communities, I believe it only seems acceptable because it is being done to someone else, and there is a comfortable ignorance surrounding the reality of suffering this is causing.

Of course Hamas are partly responsible for the current situation, but it is the continued, sustained and disproportionate action by the IDF, that is right now the main cause of death and suffering for innocent civilians. This is why the spotlight is on them.

The openly expressed genocidal intent by key figures in Israel and allowance of hate speech adds to the argument that the human rights of Palestinian civilians are being disregarded.

Neither can I so can you provide some specifics?

This
I can barely watch the news and have avoided these threads because frankly they are depressing.
However, there is little doubt that ethnic cleansing is occurring.
I just fear that both Israeli and Palestinian people are going to suffer as a result of the Israeli government’s desire to wipe out an entire population
The ‘silence’ of the West is indeed deafening ..
.

The problem is that the Israeli government/ idf have banned any international press from being present in Gaza, therefore it is near impossible to have independent and verified information. Jeremy Bowen has said that this is the first time, as a war reporter, that he hasn't been allowed to be near the front line.
Why was that decision made?
I could speculate that, maybe the Israeli government doesn't want the world to witness what they are doing in Gaza. If that the case, why not?

But as you yourself said, that's speculation. I could likewise speculate that it's because they know how incredibly dangerous all of Gaza is and that they'll have no way of protecting the reporters. Or that the reporters will literally get in the way. Or I could speculate that it's because they're hiding a massive pink elephant in Gaza that they don't want anyone to know about. All these speculations, yours included, are equally nonsensical and baseless. So maybe do less speculating and more sharing of actual information if you want to further the actual cause at hand - the safety and freedom of the Palestinians.

I'm obviously not going to answer your question since it's based on an entirely made up, hypothetical scenario.

Please read this.
‘Hugely frustrating’: international media seek to overcome Gaza ban | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian
In Gaza, a War the World Can’t See - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
Israel-Gaza war is deadliest conflict for journalists in 30 years : NPR
Freedom of the press (the right of newspapers, magazines, etc., to report news without being controlled by any government) is one of the main building blocks of a democracy.
Banning/supressing it is a red flag for me.

The western world ran with the 40 beheaded babies story at the beginning of all this but there was never any evidence. Do you only need evidence when it's to prove Palestinians are being massacred?

@ThatUsernameIsTaken do I need to remind you that was also the case when the sexual violence of 7/10 became evident. Look at how many left wing contributors and supposed feminists demanded more evidence.

Israel is concerned about protecting reporters? Well it's definitely not that, seeing as they've murdered at least 85 of them since October.

Obviously none of us can read the minds of the Israeli war cabinet, but it's a fair conclusion that they don't want reporters in Gaza because they don't want the world to see what they're doing. It's understandable in fairness to them. If I was committing war crimes on a daily basis I'd try to keep that quiet too.

No, I like to have evidence for all claims, but specially when the only sources seem to be people on social media. Hope that helps clarify.

@stomachameleon I didn’t question reports from October 7th, but I am far more likely to question the credibility of Israeli information now. For a few reasons…..

• Their disproportionate response which signals a lack of respect for life. They even managed to kill two of their own white flag carrying hostages.
• The shaky evidence (staged pictures) that has been provided as evidence of terrorist activity.
• Public and unpunished support for genocide by key figures, members of the IDF, civilians, and even in a main stream song.
• The inappropriate use of the term terrorist, Hamas, supporter of either, or antismetic applied to many people who disagree with their action.
• Punishment (and outrage) for people who disagree with their actions.
• The biased reporting of their own media and dehumanisation of Palestinians.
• The lack of transparency created by disallowing and directly targeting journalists.
• An attempt to control the narrative by timing the release of information to coincide with events that show them in a bad light.
• An attempt to control the narrative by consistently drawing focus back to the 7th October, but ignoring the treatment of Palestinian people before this point.

Im sure there are plenty more reasons.

And it's an equally fair conclusion that Hind was killed because Hamas were in the area firing at the tank that was next to the car Hind was in. Will you accept that as well then? Or do you think that maybe some evidence for my claim should be required?

Well, it seems to need repeating an awful lot on here...

I see that you don't understand the basics ~ that after a strike figures always tend to rise due to people dying from their injuries and also due to more deceased people being found.

As for "terrorist propaganda" I am not one who blindly believes anything coming from the Israeli Occupation so no worries there....