Standing up for Israel

[Fizzadora]

So, they have got to MN now too.
I just managed to read the previous post before it got deleted for being inflammatory. Not to me it wasn't but then I don't support terrorists.
Many, many people do stand for Israel and not for Hamas (and by definition their supporters; you know who you are).

Are there any other countries in the Middle East where a gay couple can walk down the street holding hands?
Why is it “pink washing” to point out that Israel is a safer place for a gay couple than other Middle East countries?

If only you read the links ….
“On 30 July, six people were stabbed at a Jerusalem Gay Pride march, including 16-year-old Shira Banki, who later died from her injuries in hospital.
“

carry on with your pinkwashing

That was ten years ago ( still terrible though) . Unfortunately you still get homophobia even in liberal democracies. We’ve had horrible homophobic murders in the UK. The fact remains that Israel is a safer country for gay people than any other country in the Middle East . It’s not pink washing

Very, very sad. Just goes to show that homophobic arseholes pop up everywhere, even in countries which protect LGBTQI rights. A quarter of a million people attend Tel Aviv Pride annually. How does that compare to Pride celebrations in other Middle Eastern countries?

Again i said it was 10 years ago
why cant a gay couple get married in Israel ?thought they were lgbt friendly

I think they have more pressing political issues at the moment but hopefully they will address that soon

It'll certainly be safer than Gaza anyway where more than 1 out of every 100 people have been killed in the past few months.

Yes - I don’t think Gaza was a good place to be gay before October 7th - but now it is hell on earth for everyone- gay or straight.

I think one of the biggest issues on this board (and anywhere online really) is that standing up for Israelis and their right live in Israel is equated to being a genocidal Zionist extremist. Most of us who stand up for Israelis don't support Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir, the leaders of the IDF, or the murder of tens of thousands of Palestinians. Believing Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state.in the holy land doesn't mean the eradication of Palestine and it's citizens. Israel is certainly flawed (it's government is case and point), but it is the only place where LGBT people can live safely in the Middle East, it is one of the the only Middle Eastern countries that values women, and it is the only place in the Middle East where Jewish people are welcome. Changes absolutely need to be made, but the continued existence of Israel should be supported.

@LargeSquareRock

The only Middle Eastern country where a gay couple can walk down the street holding hands

In fairness though, while this example is positive, gay couples cannot legally marry within Israel so they are not treated equally to straight people in many ways. The same goes for interfaith couples.

Part of the reason I post here is to try to be a voice for the people I knew who can no longer have their own voices heard.

"Remember us". A simple request from someone who knew they were going to die in that war zone.

My friends and colleagues who have died in Gaza deserve to have those of us who remain continue to say "This is not ok". What more can I give them than that?

So, I write and I speak and I ask people to try to be better than Hamas were and the Israeli government have been. Not only for the people who have died, but for the innocent lives still at risk, the people who need to be able to go home, the families who deserve to bury their dead, and the young men and women in both Israel and Gaza facing yet more war and trauma.

There has been countless amounts of hate speech on threads about the Palestinian people... However, I haven't seen anyone being targeted for being Jewish at all.

I have seen some posters making some ridiculous allegations to anyone daring to say how terrible the ongoing situation is for Palestinian people. (Being Hamas supporters/sympathisers/etc, being antisemitic, and so on.)

I haven't seen anyone making that claim you have said but plenty of hate speech against the Palestinian people and some rather nasty attitudes in general.

Yep, being bombed nonstop really has caused it to become that. Especially with the complete lack of aid being allowed in and hospitals being attacked and unable to treat the injured/the dying etc.

@BackandForthRoundandRound There have been several instances of anti-Jewish rhetoric, but they have typically been removed because it's hate speech. I have also seen unsavoury things being said about Palestinians, as well as Israelis. Generalising entire groups of people is never the way forward.

I think my point is that a lot of posters are vehemently against Israel, when it isn't the country's existence that is the problem. The entanglement of the "From the river to the sea" chant (which to many is a simple plea for the freedom of Palestinian people), Hamas' desire to eradicate Israel, the actual meaning of Zionism, and the intentions of extremist Zionists means there is no straightforward communication or discussion.

Sorry if that sounds chaotic. It's been a screamy day with my 15-month-old!

I know the feeling all too well ~ my youngest is two. I hope your little one settled okay for you in the end!

I agree about the generalising entire groups of people... It is horrible to see and it is basic common sense that not everyone is the same. All throughout history people have done just that and it has caused untold amounts of damage.

Unfortunately, I have read a whole lot of people generalising Palestinian people and essentially lumping everyone in with Hamas. A lot of these posts seem to stay up but obviously the most directly offensive and vile posts are removed but sometimes not as quickly as others directly criticising Israel.

There is a difference between Jews and Zionists. I think that is an important thing to point out (before anyone jumps on me for that!) There are always Jewish people marching in the demonstrations and being very vocal about wanting a ceasefire and that Israel needs to stop being an occupying power. Plenty of Jewish people have been attacked in Israel for speaking out. Whereas, it seems to be that Zionists are the opposite.

I think that the issue here is that people are disgusted with the actions of the Israeli army (to put it mildly/politely!) as well as being disgusted with the Israeli government. Then throw in the actions and continued behaviours of the illegal settlers, for example, and the people blocking aid trucks preventing starving people from accessing basic food and other essentials... it is these issues, along with a couple more, that people are criticising.

If only some would realise that everyone is human. All lives are worth exactly the same. But sadly I don't think that is going to happen as so many have it deeply entrenched that some are worth more and some less, it seems.

I think one of the biggest issues on this board (and anywhere online really) is that standing up for Israelis and their right live in Israel is equated to being a genocidal Zionist extremist
**
Well, that and people who criticise Israel being called antisemitic supporters of terrorism.

I think that the issue here is that people are disgusted with the actions of the Israeli army (to put it mildly/politely!) as well as being disgusted with the Israeli government. Then throw in the actions and continued behaviours of the illegal settlers, for example, and the people blocking aid trucks preventing starving people from accessing basic food and other essentials

Thing is I have seen most pro Israel posters say that they aren’t happy with Israel’s government or the settlers. If that’s true then WHY do they get so angry about people having a negative view of Israel’s conduct? I genuinely don’t get it.

• @Limeandsodaontherocks I didn’t see the deleted posts so this is not a reference to that.*

One in particular was the most revolting hate speech, plain and simple, from a previously banned poster.

I think one of the biggest issues on this board (and anywhere online really) is that standing up for Israelis and their right live in Israel is equated to being a genocidal Zionist extremist

Equally, anyone standing up for Palestinians and their right to a free Palestine is branded a terrorist sympathiser.

Each is ludicrous.

While I see antagonistic crowds gathering in the UK weekly, holding banners calling 7/10 resistance,ripping down posters of kidnapped children, calling for global intifada.....
I stand with Israel and the Jewish community in the UK. Never again is now.

Like all peace loving people I feel horror at this situation, it could stop today with hostage release & hamas laying down their arms.

it could stop today with hostage release & hamas laying down their arms.
Netanyahu has rejected Hamas' ceasefire proposal. He has not intention of stopping the slaughter of innocent Palestinians. Why is that?

Not quite the whole story

Remind us what the terms demanded by hamas were....

@Fussandmisery I think some posters may get a bit defensive about the criticizing of Israel due in part to semantics. Many people criticize Israel as a whole, but Hamas rather than all of Palestine. It vilifies millions of individuals who have no say on being conscripted into an army led by those they likely didn't vote for to fight on a war they may not support. It's also important to recognize that Israelis are fighting for their country's own existence - their enemy (Hamas as well as many others terrorist groups surrounding them) want them wiped off the map simply for being Jewish or daring to live in the world's only Jewish state.

Interesting how protests against Israel's actions are more abhorrent to you than the slaughter of 30,000 people in Israel. Especially from someone claiming to be "peace-loving".