To find the silence about UNRWA being Hamas hypocritical

[Muthaofcats]

I entirely understand the discomfort seeing images coming out of Gaza; but what I don’t get is those who choose to post about it on social media or campaign expressing their horror but being totally SILENT after October 7th (before Israeli had even responded), after evidence of the sexual violence suffered by those murdered in Israel and now, after finding out that UNWRA who they have all been sending donations to, are actually Hamas who perpetrated the atrocities.

Where is the outrage from these people at UNRWA?

Why are none of these vocal people not screaming from the roof tops at how horrendous this is !?! If it was true you care about humanity, why aren’t you horrified to learn you’ve all been donating to an organisation so closely linked to the rape and murder of innocent civilians ? (And this isn’t the first time unrwa has been linked to Hamas; their HQ is a Hamas building and they’ve famously been linked to training terrorists in their schools / got into hot water for removing the hollocaust from their curriculum)

if you are one of those white privileged women who posts on social media about a cease fire (I’m talking to those of you who have never been to the ME, or studied ME history and never taken up the cause of any of the other global conflicts); why is your outrage so one sided and blinkered ? Why don’t you acknowledge the horrors of the Israeli/ Jewish people too ? If you’re really the virtuous person you purport to be by taking up this cause, why don’t you care ? Or do you believe what Hamas did and are doing and promising to keep doing (murder all Jews) is justified ?

Genuinely find it bewildering.

Thanks @Dulra I've heard the quote before, but I think it's racist and frankly daft to assume humans love for their children has anything to do with their race/ethnicity.

Let's get our own houses in order first shall we?
We are in a country with a detailed system of vetting people, resources to keep and check records etc.

Still we have the occasional police officer, teacher, doctor, nurse etc (all 'checked' people) who commit murder, rape, are paedophiles.

Shall we stop finding the NHS after nurse Letby? How about abolishing the police after Curzon? And obviously they're are zero foreign spies that make it through here.

Frankly, if we can't root out all the 'bad eggs' with all of the resources we have as a country, how do we expect Gaza to do the same?

The ideal number of UNRWA staff who were involved in 7/10 is zero obviously. The ideal number of paedophiles within that group, or rapists is also zero. It won't be though, just like it's not zero in any other large group.

They haven't been convicted yet, but they are under suspicion. Just the same as Israel is under suspicion of genocide and other war crimes.

Regardless, it's an abhorrence that we are sending weapons to kill children with, at the same time as stopping aid because 0.04% is an organisation is under suspicion.

To me this looks like a well timed ploy by Israel to distract from the ICJ decision, and to undermine the special measures relating to aid .

I agree, its been said outright or implied a number of times on these threads that Palestinians don't love their children as much as other groups. It's a disturbing and inherently racist rhetoric that seems to be acceptable to say. I don't think some people even realise how offensive it is. Especially right now whilst their children are being killed in their thousands, it seems some sort of warped way of minimising their pain.

@Parkingt111 It's a form of 'othering', which shifts responsibility to the othered group, perhaps. The children are dying because their parents don't love them enough, not because of any actions by the Israeli army or government.

why are you deleted @Dulra ?

@shockeditellyou for many of us it's because our Government is supporting it when it is in a position to take a much stronger line against Israel's actions. We didn't support Asad or ISIS as the main perpetrators of the atrocities in Syria.

Reasonably sensible post until you decided to claim this is a ploy by Israel. How do you think they managed that? Did they encourage 12 members of UNWRA to take part in the October 7th attack? Did they force UNWRA to fire these people without evidence?

I agree aid is desperately needed in Gaza, but the idea that this is just a few bad apples has also been debunked earlier on this thread. It's not clear how to deal with that from an ethical or pragmatic point of view; it just isn't the equivalent of a lone criminal like Letby and other examples, because if a proportion of the UNWRA workforce are supporting Hamas ideology and possibly Hamas members then it seriously undermines the whole mechanism for the aid to be delivered as it should be.

That makes little sense- there is minimal condemnation of our Government supporting Israel, and the UK Government is one of the top 10 funders of UNRWA.

Well, if the stuff now being reported by the Wall Street Journal is true, then UNRWA needs reclassifying as a terrorist organisation.

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/at-least-12-u-n-agency-employees-involved-in-oct-7-attacks-intelligence-reports-say-a7de8f36?mod=mhp

Not sure might because I had referenced the deleted post?

‘BREAKING: The “few bad apples” line pushed by the UN has just been obliterated. The Wall Street Journal front page is reporting that an estimated 1,200 Unrwa employees in Gaza are actual “operatives” of Hamas or Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and about half have close relatives who belong to the Islamist terrorist organizations, according to Israeli intelligence estimates shared with the U.S. government.

The report said 23% of Unrwa’s male employees—the agency has a total staff of 12,000 in Gaza—took active part in the Hamas organization’s military or political framework, a higher percentage than the average of 15% for adult males in Gaza.

The information in the Israeli intelligence reports is based on sensitive signals intelligence as well as cellphone tracking data, interrogations of captured Hamas gunmen and documents recovered from dead terrorists.

Nearly half of all Unrwa employees—an estimated 49%—also had close relatives with official ties to Hamas and other terrorist groups.

The Oct. 7 intelligence reports seen by the Wall Street Journal identified an Unrwa Arabic teacher who was also a Hamas terrorist commander and took part in a terrorist attack on Kibbutz Be’eri, where 97 people were murdered, and about 26 people were kidnapped and taken as hostages to Gaza.

Another Unrwa employee, described in the dossier as an Unrwa social worker, played a role in absconding with the body of a dead Israeli soldier, which was taken to Gaza, the reports said. He also coordinated trucks and munitions distributions for Hamas before being killed.’

@Dulra, oh, maybe. Thought it was strange, Never mind.

By a ploy, I mean the publication of the allegations the same day as the IDF, the using of those allegations to defund an organisation which Israel had made comments about wanting to remove. By waiting until the ICJ said they must allow in aid, and now they are just going to turn around and go 'we can't, because they are 0.04%of them may be linked to Hamas. See, it's not our fault aid can't get through...

Frankly, even if all of them were bad apples, then given Israel controls EVERYTHING going on, I'm not sure it's justifiable stopping them from distributing aid. The length of control means they simply aren't going to be smuggling in weapons. Even fruit with stones are banned in case Hamas throw them at the IDF. Frankly with the amount of metal from bombs, broken glass etc that there's around because of the bombs, I'm not sure peaches are exactly WMD here. If even a peach can't get through without Israel's approval then even if the aid risks being given to a terrorist supporter, it's disproportionate to withhold it.

people can’t compare Syrias civil war, which was a result of the Arab spring that swept many countries in the ME , with this conflict, it’s not symmetrical ,
Governments were against the Assad regime , and an international coalition was formed to fight Russia and Iran backed Assad regime, The Syrian National coalition government was recognized by most western countries as a legitimate government.
People in edlib and Daraa had the option to move into Turkey or Jordan for example, Germany took in so many refugees . There was a lot of humanitarian aid offered to various countries that hosted these refugees.
maybe you were not aware of what’s happening in other countries shockeditellyou but I lived in the ME around that time, hundreds of millions in aid money from countries like Kuwait , KSA,Malaysia Qatar and turkey was allocated to Syria’s/Jordan/ Lebanon / Turkey Boarder towns to help with relief , and still it was not not enough to help millions of displaced Syrians.
governments were not quiet either , they were very vocal , 17 unanimous Security council resolutions to date.
compare all of this with what’s happening in Gaza and EU/US /UK response to the crisis,
do you still resent these futile marches?

I've not heard any suggestions from countries withdrawing funding as to what the alternatives are.

Other countries that disagree with the action need to step up their funding of the agency until the investigation is complete.
Of the top 15 contributors listed, two are Muslim majority countries. Surely others that disagree with the suspension of funding could bridge the gap until the issues are resolved to the satisfaction of the donors?

Surely the countries that are paying for this conflict and supplying arms for it need to be the ones 'stepping up' and paying for the fallout? You can't supply the arms to bombs children then shrug when those children need anaesthesia so their damaged limbs can be amputated. Well obviously you can do that but it doesn't seem very ethical.

Besides all of that did the ICJ not say that aid is Israels responsibility? It is surely then up to Israel plug any gaps in aid and prove to the ICJ next month that they are doing that.

Let’s wait for that to happen then.

Because whilst governments and the UN talk and procrastinate and point fingers and make impotent demands, people will continue to die.
Disease and starvation and cold will kill more than the bombs. And by the time summer comes and the squabbles have achieved nothing, how many will be left to save?

And bridge that gap with what? Ireland with a population of 5 million is a country still contributing, they would have no where near the funds needed to plug the gap of funders such as the US or even the UK. There is no magic money tree ..

Yes, it will be interesting to see what strides Israel takes to make sure their responsibilities to prevent genocide are taken care of. Given their staunch denials of the claim I'm sure that they have it all in hand and are working out how they will pay for millions of dollars worth of aid that they need to legally supply and distribute in order to meet their responsibilities.

No the ICJ did not say aid is Israel's responsibility. It said that Israel must immediate measures to allow aid through, not that they have to provide that aid.

Well we will see what happens. Ultimately its Israels responsibility to make sure civilians don't die so if no one is providing the aid they need to live then I don't see what other choice Israel will have. It is after all Israel who have created the hunger crisis, displaced the majority of the population, created the conditions for infectious diseases to thrive and created the increased need for healthcare.

And hamas could release the hostages and bodies, lay down their arms and surrender.

That's how wars end.

Then the rebuilding and healing starts.

And bridge that gap with what?

ZAKAT

Brunei
Kuwait
Indonesia
Malaysia
Qatar
Oman
UAE
Egypt
Bahrain
Saudi Arabia

For a start.