Netanyahu rules out two state solution

[ConnieCounter]

Netanyahu rejects a Palestinian state. Surprise surprise.

What is his plan for Gaza?

Resettle with Israeli settlements? Return to continued Israeli occupation?

How can the US, UK, EU and others continue to support this war when they claim to be in favour of a two state solution?

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-18-2024-73d552c6e73e0dc3783a0a11b2b5f67d?taid=65a95f27cc8ea90001513093&utm_campaign=TrueAnthem&utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter

I have seen calls for elections and polls indicate that he isn't currently very popular so it may be quite likely

It's no excuse for what Israel are doing. Israel are killing thousands of children and levelling a country, Palestine have made no where near as much damage. Israel is massively in the wrong here, they need to be punished (economically perhaps) for the shit they are pulling.

Now we get to it
The Palestinians won't stop until they've scrubbed Israel from the map.

Hamas are not "the Palestinians". This is extremely divisive and dangerous rhetoric.

Exactly

Hamas leader doesn't want it either.

https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1749049490009440569

@AdamRyan

Hamas won't stop until they destroy Israel.

https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1749049490009440569

The Israeli government won't stop until Gaza is destroyed. Two of their representatives were on Radio 4 today and stated as much.

I can’t stand the affectionate “Bibi” for that detestable man 🤮🤮🤮. (I
meant to quote a poster above )

Erm..I don't think it's being used affectionately

I'm not discussing what a terrorist group will or won't do.
I take issue with people using "Palestinians" when they mean Hamas. It betrays their prejudice.

@5thCommandment That's war for you. It's not a game of cricket. And, as I said, the other side always gets a vote, and there's no guarantee the response wil be "proportional", whatever that means. To me, that line of reasoning speaks of naiveté and the gamification (score keeping) of war. And in war, everyone's a target.

@AdamRyan Hamas is the government of the Palestinians so what Hamas does is in their name. If they do not like that, then the best bet is to get rid of Hamas a.s.a.p.

No piers it isn't. Even I know that as someone fairly uninformed. Hamas administers Gaza, the Palestinian Authority administers the West Bank. The Palestinians have no single government and no state. They can't "get rid of Hamas " from Gaza because there hasn't been an election in 15 years.

@AdamRyan ...and why hasn't there been an election? Remind me: when did the Palestinians (in Gaza or otherwise) demonstrate against Hamas and demand free elections?

If the Palestinians want rid of Hamas, it stands to reason that they give up members to the Israeli authorities. Do they? Not in number, at least. As you can see, the distinction between Hamas and Palestinian is an opaque one - one must assume tacit support for the Hamas leadership.

All decisions have consequences. This includes deciding to do nothing.

Yeah I'm sure it would be really safe for Palestinians to do that

Hmm if ordinary Gazans can't or won't remove Hamas that leaves three options left:

1. Ask Hamas nicely if they would please step down and leave Gaza (like Egypt did)
2. Leave Hamas in power
3. Remove Hamas by force

Would the post you are referring to on another thread by any chance be this one:

"There is absolutely no difference between either side declaring "From the river" regardless of whether that implies the extinction of the State of Israel or the Palestinian State and regardless of whether it is Netanyahu , Hamas or the protesters on the streets of London.

Both are equally unacceptable and morally repugnant. "

++++

If so please can you clarify how this is pro Israel?

No it's not. It's one that said it's a genocidal statement when pro Palestine people say it but it's OK when pro Israelis say it.

@ConnieCounter

"It's one that said it's a genocidal statement when pro Palestine people say it but it's OK when pro Israelis say it."

+++

Great thanks for clarifying- can you please reference that post because I certainly have never seen such a post.

Indeed the only post that I saw that said it was different between pro Palestinian or pro Israeli stating "From the river to the sea.." was @Itoosurvive who claimed it was mere bluster from Hamas calling for the destruction of Israel and should therefore not be taken seriously.

No, I'm not going to trawl through threads looking for it for you. It was a conversation based on Netanyahu's recent comment if I recall correctly but I can't remember the thread.

Ah OK - thanks again for clarifying and I guess we will just have to go on your word that such a post was ever actually made and that you didn't just make it up.

@1dayatatime
Indeed the only post that I saw that said it was different between pro Palestinian or pro Israeli stating "From the river to the sea.." was @Itoosurvivewho claimed it was mere bluster from Hamas calling for the destruction of Israel and should therefore not be taken seriously.

Please don't distort my argument. I said it was mere bluster because they did not have anything like the military capability necessary and therefore should not be taken seriously.

Hamas are not the Palestinians. Palestinians - like any group - have diverse views.

Only 30-40 thousand Palestinians were Hamas fighters at the start of the war: 1.5-2% of the population.

More Palestinians actively supported Hamas. One released Israeli hostage was shocked that she was held prisoner by a Palestinian family, that many seemingly ordinary Palestinians were actively part of holding her hostage.

Yet more Palestinians again support Hamas' cause and methods. Not all. But a Reuters report in December found that 70% of Palestinians supported Hamas's attack (although they generally didn't believe that the torture and rape had happened). I remember reading a different poll taken before the war that suggested 60-70% Palestinian support for armed conflict with Israel.

Given these percentages - and also the history of wars and attacks going back to 1947 and earlier - it's not unreasonable for @PiersPlowman11 to believe not only that Hamas want to destroy Israel, but also that as a collective, any Palestinian entity will have the same aim.

I hope that's not the case. I hope that a higher percentage of Palestinians can come to see that peaceful coexistence is in their own interests. And that they manage to influence the leadership to attempt that path. And that violent militants don't co-opt the government again and force conflict despite being a minority.

I hope those things. But I also understand if @PiersPlowman11 can't believe that things will change.

@statsfun
I think yours is an excellent thesis, however, I would like to address the numbers.

You state that 30-40,000 Palestinians were Hamas fighters at the start of the war, constituting around 1-2% of the general population. Maybe so, but as a proportion of the men of fighting age that percentage is likely to be considerably higher. Excluding women alone doubles the percentage. Then children. And then the elderly and infirm. It is entirely conceivable that 10% or more of of men of fighting age actively fought for Hamas. That is a huge proportion of the population.

For comparative purposes, what proportion of men of fighting age serve in the armed forces of Western countries? A tiny fraction in comparison. In a domestic setting, with 10% of fighting age Scots mobilised, Geordies would quite rightly be feeling twitchy.

What is happening in Israel and Gaza is absolutely terrifying.

I made a statement as others often do. I didn't ask you to discuss.

I said hamas. I didn't say Palestinians.

I made a single word post yet you managed to misunderstood it on 2 points.

Oh, because you @ me I thought you were replying to my previous post.

Why did you direct your post to me then? It's hard to understand a post with no context