Israel/Hamas War - Ceasefire

[Toggenburgsaregreat]

Each Saturday we are seeing demonstrations in London where people are marching with placards and calling for a ceasefire in the Hamas/Israel war.

However, it is difficult to know how the supporters of Palestine think this can be achieved? (Interestingly, no calls for Hamas to cease hostilities and return the hostages were heard - so is this really a call for unilateral disarmament?)

And who should Israel negotiate a ceasefire with? Hamas, ISIS, ISSP, The Muslim Brotherhood - all of these groups/any of these groups?

What is it the supporters of Palestine actually want?

I think that for quite a few people in the US, what we would call conservative, or even quite right wing, given the NHS and welfare state, would seem at least socialist to them, and perhaps even communist.

Labour might definitely seem communist and something to be suspicious of. It is not surprising that Vance has picked up on our Labour Party and Muslim MPs being in government.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/17/both-israel-and-hamass-leaders-believe-there-is-more-to-gain-by-fighting-on

I wasn’t sure where to put this, but it is another reason why there needs to be a cease fire in order to take steps to stop thus spreading:

• The Palestinian Health Ministry said in a statement on Friday that it detected the first confirmed case of polio in the Gaza Strip in the central city of Deir Al-Balah, in a 10-month-old baby who had not received any polio vaccination dose.

• UN chief Antonio Guterres on Friday called for concrete assurances guaranteeing humanitarian pauses in order for a polio vaccine campaign in Gaza.

(Haaretz)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gdewq4v8wo

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/sep/01/hostage-deaths-pressure-netanyahu-agree-gaza-ceasefire

The IDF said it believed the hostages were killed on Friday or Saturday, shortly before troops arrived at the location, to prevent their rescue.

Last Thursday, when there was possibly still time to save these hostages through a ceasefire deal with Hamas without going into tunnels, Netanyahu imposed his will about maintaining an Israeli presence in the Philadelphia Corridor even against the judgement of the IDF who said it was unnecessary and would impede the deal, and it was also against Mossad’s advice which was that there was no logic to it.

Gallant said at the time,
“The prime minister can indeed make all the decisions, and he can also decide to have all the hostages killed.”
https://www.timesofisrael.com/asked-to-decide-between-hostages-or-philadelphi-netanyahu-said-to-prefer-latter/

(I already posted this link on the hostage thread but it seemed relevant to points made in this Guardian article which also mentions last Thursday.)

From Haaretz

HOSTAGES/CEASE-FIRE: The IDF announced on Sunday morning that it has found the bodies of six hostages kidnapped by Hamas and taken to Gaza on October 7: Almog Sarusi, Alex Lobanov, Carmel Gat, Eden Yerushalmi, Ori Danino and Hersh Goldberg-Polin.

• IDF Spokesperson Daniel Hagari said that the six were killed by Hamas shortly before the army arrived at their location, according to initial assessments, adding that the bodies were found in a tunnel in Rafah, roughly one kilometer from the tunnel in which hostage Kaid Farhan al-Qadi was found last week.

• A source told Haaretz that findings from the autopsies of the six hostages indicate that they had all been shot in the head, adding that while their physical condition was frail, it did not indicate extreme emaciation or starvation, and that had they not been shot, they would have survived. The source added that no other signs of physical trauma were found on the bodies.

• An examination conducted at the Institute of Forensic Medicine found that the six were shot several times at close range, the Health Ministry reported. It is estimated that the hostages were killed 48 to 72 hours before their bodies were examined, meaning either on Thursday or on Friday early in the morning.

• Three of the six hostages, Hersh Goldberg-Polin, Eden Yerushalmi and Carmel Gat, were supposed to be released in the first stage of the hostage/cease-fire deal currently being negotiated, an Israeli source told Haaretz. "They appeared in the lists given over at the beginning of July. It was possible to bring them back alive," the source said.

• After hostage families appealed to PM Netanyahu to make a public appearance following the recovery of the bodies, the premier released a recorded statement saying: "Hamas refuses to negotiate. Those who murder hostages don't want a deal." President Isaac Herzog apologized, "on behalf of the State of Israel," to the families of the hostages "for failing to bring them home safely."

• In response to Netanyahu's statement, the Hostage Families Forum called on the prime minister to "Take responsibility for your mistakes. Take responsibility for the sabotage. Take responsibility for the abandonment. Take responsibility for the hostages who were murdered in captivity…We do not expect the terrorist Sinwar to want to return the hostages, we expect the prime minister of Israel to do everything, everything, everything, in order to bring the hostages home."

• Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said the security cabinet must immediately convene and reverse the decision it made to keep an Israeli military presence along the Philadelphi route along the Egypt-Gaza border, adding that "it is too late for the hostages who were murdered in cold blood," but hostages who remain alive in captivity must be returned.

(NB The IDF and Mossad both said they do NOT NEED ThE Philadelphia Corridor. See The Times of Israel 30 August
https://www.timesofisrael.com/asked-to-decide-between-hostages-or-philadelphi-netanyahu-said-to-prefer-latter/
Netanyahu is using the P C as an excuse to stop the negotiations with Hamas.)

• An Israeli minister told Haaretz that Netanyahu is stalling negotiations for a hostage release deal so his government doesn't fall apart, adding that in a month there will be no hostages left alive in Gaza.

• Former war cabinet member and opposition lawmaker Benny Gantz said, "The prime minister should protect the hostages and the citizens of Israel, not his coalition controlled by extremists…the public has to go out into the street. The time has come to replace the government of complete failure."

• Far-right Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said "the cabinet will not allow a deal of surrender that compromises Israel's security, but will instruct the defense establishment to extract heavier prices from Hamas," adding that "Gaza must be reduced in size. IDF troops need to advance two kilometers from the current border and clear everything in their path. This is territory that will never return to the Gazans."

From bbc

Israel's labour court has ruled that today's general strike must end by 14:30 local time (12:30 BST).
Local media reports earlier today said organisers planned to keep going until 18:00 local time (16:00 BST).
More on this shortly.

——
arent strikes allowed in Israel?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2np7p1yr7o

Biden finally waking up is he? Took his bloody time.

He has said similar sentences in the past. And the minute after talking against Netanhayu he sells him new weapons to kill innocent civilians.

Agree, it's usually just to buy more time. A journalist I follow in the region suspects it may be to allow the American ships around the region to reposition themselves and I suspect she is right.

Yes fair point. Actions would speak far louder than words.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/sep/02/biden-says-netanyahu-not-doing-enough-to-secure-ceasefire-with-hamas

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/04/middleeast/netanyahu-derailed-hostage-deal-in-july-intl/index.html

The guardian

Hamas has said there is no need for new ceasefire proposals for Gaza and pressure should be put on Israel to agree to a US plan that the Islamist group had already accepted.
The US is expected to present a new truce proposal aimed at breaking an impasse between Hamas and Israel soon. Benjamin Netanyahu faces pressure from within Israel to seal a deal that would free remaining hostages, after Israeli authorities announced on Sunday the deaths of six whose bodies were recovered from a Gaza tunnel.
In a statement posted on Telegram early on Thursday, Hamas said that Netanyahu was attempting to thwart an agreement by insisting that Israel will not withdraw from the Philadelphi corridor in southern Gaza. The issue has become a central obstacle in the talks. The Israeli PM has been widely accused of trying to prolong the war for his own personal and political gain.
“We warn against falling into Netanyahu’s trap and tricks, as he uses negotiations to prolong the aggression against our people,” the Hamas statement said, adding that it had accepted a 2 July proposal put forward by the US.
But late Wednesday Netanyahu claimed it was Hamas that was stalling the talks.
“We’re trying to find some area to begin the negotiations,” he said Wednesday. “They [Hamas] refuse to do that … [They said] there’s nothing to talk about.”
Netanyahu maintains that Israel must retain control over the Philadelphi Corridor along the Egypt-Gaza border to prevent weapons smuggling to Hamas, which has demanded a complete withdrawal from the area.

Thank you. I noticed this point made by the opposition leader.

The Israeli opposition leader, Yair Lapid, derided Netanyahu’s presentation as “political spin” with “no relation to reality”.
“Not one professional buys this spin. Not the security personnel, not the international system, not the fighters who are actually in Gaza and know the reality there,” Lapid said, according to the Times of Israel.

Brings a whole new perspective to death by power point.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c774d4p2mx6o

When I read that, I thought good for them. It seems to be forgotten that they were asked to host Hamas and take on this role. I expect they got fed up of being scapegoated.