Israel/Hamas War - Ceasefire

[Toggenburgsaregreat]

Each Saturday we are seeing demonstrations in London where people are marching with placards and calling for a ceasefire in the Hamas/Israel war.

However, it is difficult to know how the supporters of Palestine think this can be achieved? (Interestingly, no calls for Hamas to cease hostilities and return the hostages were heard - so is this really a call for unilateral disarmament?)

And who should Israel negotiate a ceasefire with? Hamas, ISIS, ISSP, The Muslim Brotherhood - all of these groups/any of these groups?

What is it the supporters of Palestine actually want?

I suppose they want the same as what the other 153 states voted for at the UN. A ceasefire

Here's a link one of the marches for Ukraine, in case you need a refresher https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/mar/27/march-in-support-of-ukraine-in-london-everything-was-turning-blue-and-yellow

Perhaps they stopped because the UK welcomed them with open arms, Boris visited their President, and they have sent aid.

Perhaps we're still marching for Palestine because that hasn't happened

No, and it wasn't me who brought up the issue of dead babies.

It's still a valid question though IMO

The supporters of Palestine just want peace and for all the bombings and killings to stop. They want Palestine to be free to live without being imprisoned, controlled etc - to have their freedom back. Thats what these marches are about. They're not about supporting Hamas or hating on the Jewish faith or inciting hate.

@TinkerTiger "Perhaps they stopped because the UK welcomed them with open arms, Boris visited their President, and they have sent aid.

Perhaps we're still marching for Palestine because that hasn't happened"

We sent Aid to Gaza in Oct - For 2023/24, the UK has committed £87 million in aid to the Occupied Palestinian Territories (around US$109 million). This includes £60 million announced in October/November 2023 (US$75 million). Additional commitments have also been announced by the United States (US$100 million) and the European Union (€100 million, around US$107 million). Germany, France, Canada and Japan are among those to also pledge aid. - from House of Commons Library

So you think we should take in Gazan refugees?

And who do you think Sunak should pay a visit to?

I would think that at the moment the marchers are voicing their wish for the daily mass murder to stop. Not that I can speak for anyone else, but that what's apparent to me. Then perhaps talking can begin. At the end of the day there will be discussions. It's what happens when the fighting stops and it will stop. Our government is being made aware that their stance is not supported by the whole of the electorate. It's a democratic right.

"A ceasefire isn't as easy as it sounds"? According to that article that's because Israelis don't want one. We already know that. That was my whole point.

The UK Tory government sells the weapons to the Saudi government which they on the Yemeni people, similar to what is happening in Gaza. Corbyn for all his faults was always against this as were labour before Stammer. Typically those who are for a ceasefire in Gaza also want arms sales to Saudi to stop. There really is something evil about our government. Keep the protests up.

@Tel12 "Our government is being made aware that their stance is not supported by the whole of the electorate. It's a democratic right."

I'm not disputing it's a democratic right. I just don't think it's very effective.

If people want to get their opinions across that can be done via MPs

@Toggenburgsaregreat Do you think people aren't contacting their MPs already? That doesn't seem to be effective either.

What is it about marches that bothers you so much?

If you don't think it's very effective, then why are you not voicing your opinion on the Pro Israel March?

I think your post is rather naive.

Even if UK stopped selling arms to the Saudis they would buy them from elsewhere.

"Typically those who are for a ceasefire in Gaza also want arms sales to Saudi to stop"

I'm not sure how the two can be conflated and I haven't seen an interviews of any of the matchers mention this.
Where have you found this information?

There has been another terrorist attack today in Israel. I don't think Hamas are keen on stopping any time soon. Or any other Palestinian factions.

Hmm, more whataboutery 🤔

But to answer your question, I have made my opinions known to the organisers and my MP.

Well this is why a ceasefire would be good.

And for the 250 Palestinians a day who are being slaughtered.

I assume everyone here is aware that there was a ceasefire that was broken by Hamas deciding to rape, mutilate and murder hundreds of civilians and kidnap over 200 others? Perhaps they could have thought about the likely outcome before they did that? Perhaps the Gazan civilians who worked on the Kibbutzim that were destroyed and gave intel to Hamas could have thought about the consequences too?

And I've just heard there's been another attack on a ship near Yemen, but no details yet.

Looks like the spaghetti's going to hit the windmill very soon...

Well ofcourse they should have not only thought about it but also not carried out such a horrendous attack.
It doesn't mean that everyone should just accept the subsequent horrific revenge attack that the Gazans as a whole have been subjected to.
If so, then why did a staggering 152 states vote for a ceasefire?

At the end of World War II Chiang Kai-shek was the President of China. He was poised to eliminate the Communists but the Americans insisted on a ceasefire. As a result Communists were able to get stronger and eventually take over China in a bloody civil war. From that time onward millions of Chinese lost their lives by famine and execution.

This is what MacArthur said about envoy Marshall
"When Marshall was sent to China with secret State Department orders, the Communists at that time were bottled up in two areas and were fighting a losing battle, but that because of those orders the situation was radically changed in favor of the Communists. Under those orders, as we know, Marshall embargoed all arms and ammunition to our allies in China. He forced the opening of the Nationalist-held Kalgan Mountain pass into Manchuria, to the end that the Chinese Communists gained access to the mountains of captured Japanese equipment. No need to tell the country about how Marshall tried to force Chiang Kai-shek to form a partnership government with the Communists."

I don't want a ceasefire, I want Hamas to surrender and give up the hostages. Just like when the Americans forced Japan to surrender, except without the destruction of cities by bombing and the starvation caused by destruction of merchant shipping. Then the deaths will cease.

Protest does work - sometimes just to shift attitudes and rhetoric. Sometimes with historical policy changes. You can google that for yourself.

With the other conflicts you mention - I wish people would be marching/protesting about them on this scale too.
I would say it’s the speed/shock/brutality of this conflict - the world was shocked by October 7th and then Isreal responded with the world watching, in real time on social media. Most people have not seen anything like the scale, speed and brutality of what is happening to CIVILIANS in Gaza.

I think people are marching to show they feel disenfranchised from democratically elected leaders who say things that do not tally with what they believe or want to happen. This is different from other wars.

70% of the electorate across the political spectrum want a ceasefire and the killing of innocent civilians to stop.

The fact that the marching has continued over this length of time is a measure of people’s strength of feeling.

Maybe people feel helpless as their views are not being represented and marching makes them feel they are showing solidarity and telling elected MPs strength of feeling.

However, I can't see people marching all over London will make one iota of difference.
Do you apply this to people who march for the release of the hostages too?
Protests work. Marches against the Vietnam war, for the civil rights of Afro Americans and against the apartheid in SA, to name a few, worked.
Your employment rights, your entitlement to paid annual leave and many more of your rights have been gained because people protested.
We, French, have mastered the art of protesting. That is why we, as a nation, enjoy lower pension age, 35 hours week, etc.
To date, the costs of policing the Palestine supporters rallies is £17million paid for by central government. That's mine, yours and everyone else's taxes. People on these boards are the first to complain if they are impacted by the government having no funds for x,y, or z.
Protesting is a fundamental right, long fought for, in any democratic country. May it lasts.
Pressure can be brought to bear on governments without squandering tax payers money.
How? Is marching for the hostages, squandering money too because I don't think so.
However, if someone can tell me how marching through London can bring about a ceasefire in a country over 2,000 miles away.
This has been explained, on this thread.* *

All dead babies matter, but keep in mind an average of 630 Yemeni children have been killed per year during the Yemen civil war, compared to ~9,000 Gazan children killed in 0.25 of a year, a child death toll that is 57x higher.

It has also taken ten years for the Yemeni civil war to displace 3 million people, compared to 15 days to displace 2 million people.

Btw, the UN has declared the humanitarian crisis in Gaza to be the worst in the world. Not Yemen.

It’s an opinion that is completely unsubstantiated so that does make it insubstantial. The writer has provided no evidence whatsoever for his brain farts. The opinion piece has no historical record of ceasefires prolonging conflicts.