Israel/Hamas War - Ceasefire

[Toggenburgsaregreat]

Each Saturday we are seeing demonstrations in London where people are marching with placards and calling for a ceasefire in the Hamas/Israel war.

However, it is difficult to know how the supporters of Palestine think this can be achieved? (Interestingly, no calls for Hamas to cease hostilities and return the hostages were heard - so is this really a call for unilateral disarmament?)

And who should Israel negotiate a ceasefire with? Hamas, ISIS, ISSP, The Muslim Brotherhood - all of these groups/any of these groups?

What is it the supporters of Palestine actually want?

It’s hard to see how you get to a two state solution with Hamas in place

Has there been any suggestion on how that would happen?

@stomachamelon Apologies if you meant the question in a genuine way.

@Snowypeak and yet not one of them has piped up with a plan yet?

Whether it's 'tiresome' or not it needs addressing. I have yet to see other countries racing to get involved. Getting involved, even as part of a task force, will have enormous ramifications for the area. Who will want to?

What about Egypt allowing women and children in Temporarily? Or a Mixture of those countries with high Palestinian citizens? Jordan?

And your tumour analogy is good because (unfortunately I know from experience) eradicating a cancer is not always a pleasurable or pleasant task. Routing it out is a necessary evil though if you want to move forward.

@Snowypeak no I get it. It just seems though there must be a way forward. Surely?

But I can actually think of some quite obvious ways to weaken Hamas. Not an exhaustive list but here’s a start:

1. Don’t fund them like Netanyahu did.
2. Don’t steal Palestinian land and blockade Gaza, forcing its people to live in poverty and despair.
3. Don't murder thousands of children thereby creating deep trauma, hatred, further poverty, despair and radicalisation.

Hamas are gangsters and criminals. There will always be gangsters and criminals. They tend to flourish in the right conditions - poverty, despair, lack of employment, lack of future.

It’s hard to see how you get to a two state solution with Hamas and Netanyahu in place

I have learnt a new word for this today…. ‘Implicatory denial’. Essay by a Professor of Hunan Rights below which is an interesting read if you have time.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v46/n02/conor-gearty/short-cuts

That’s easier though if he’s voted out

There’s no mechanism to do the same for Hamas

Has anyone talked about the Hamas barrier

Thanks for sharing @PeasfullPerson a good read

Yes, I particularly liked the bit that said that if you found out your neighbour was plotting to kill you , that the law would not permit you to kill him and his entire family as an act of self defence

Yes. A masterclass in gaslighting.

This article is very interesting, thank you.

I had never heard that term implicatory denial before either.

“In States of Denial, Cohen was highly critical of the way liberal culture had accommodated Israel’s actions. He discussed three versions of denial: literal denial (it never happened); interpretative denial (it’s not what you think it is) and implicatory denial (we have to do it/it’s terrible, but it’s not our fault)”.

It never was about the hostages
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/pm-stonewalls-when-asked-why-idf-didnt-enter-rafah-at-outset-of-ground-offensive/

A clip of an excellent excerpt from an interview with Palestine’s Ambassador to the UK Husam Zomlot on Channel 4 News. Really worth a watch if you have a couple of minutes.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3n7lAmISt3/?igsh=MTdmZnk5dHB2NmFmbA==

I watched that, he summed it all up brilliantly.

Yes saw that, shows the UK government up for the cowards that they are and complete hypocrites. But lets face it the UK government has been on the wrong side of things for quite some time and continues to isolate itself internationally

Did Gazans “vote for Hamas”?

If anyone is interested, here is a breakdown of exactly who in Gaza voted for Hamas, and why, and when.

So fed up of hearing that 10000 children were rightfully killed because they are all terrorists.

Thank you very much for that.

Imagine, quite apart from all the other truths shown here which skew the rhetoric that the Palestinians are effectively Hamas terrorists as they voted for them, 47% of the population could not even vote in the last election as they were too young.

From The Times of Israel

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken reaffirms Washington’s opposition to any reoccupation of the Gaza Strip by Israel, as well as any reduction of its size.

Blinken’s remarks are in response to a plan for post-war Gaza put forward by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in which the Israeli army would have “indefinite freedom” to operate throughout Gaza.

“Gaza… cannot be a platform for terrorism. There should be no Israeli reoccupation of Gaza. The size of Gaza territory should not be reduced,” Blinken says in Buenos Aires.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68410226

Thanks @EasterIssland I was just coming on to post an article about it from The Guardian.

It's a temporary ceasefire where apparently Hamas is considering drafting a 40 day ceasefire with Palestinian prisoners swapped with Israeli hostages.

interesting

Of course, another American sleight of hand, they'd do well at a Las Vegas card game!

They're really really worried about how their Gaza actions are translating in the primaries. Biden "won" Michigan last week, what they didn't tell you is 100'000 voted Uncommitted, meaning* *they may well stay at home during the General election. Some areas saw an effective drop of support from 84% in 2020 to 4% in 2024.

They're trying to spin it as the highly "Arab" town of Dearborn drove this, but support has collapsed amongst Students, Women and Other minority groups.

Sooner or later a poster will come and tell us that all started when Hamas broke the ceasefire on 7/10