Israel/Hamas War - Ceasefire

[Toggenburgsaregreat]

Each Saturday we are seeing demonstrations in London where people are marching with placards and calling for a ceasefire in the Hamas/Israel war.

However, it is difficult to know how the supporters of Palestine think this can be achieved? (Interestingly, no calls for Hamas to cease hostilities and return the hostages were heard - so is this really a call for unilateral disarmament?)

And who should Israel negotiate a ceasefire with? Hamas, ISIS, ISSP, The Muslim Brotherhood - all of these groups/any of these groups?

What is it the supporters of Palestine actually want?

@stomachameleon i kind of agree with you on your deleted post. I’ve seen posters admitting that they name change every few weeks and as you say I know some people I used to talk to at the beginning aren’t here anymore however , their aggressive narrative reminds me to some from time to time new posters. Whilst I many times don’t agree with you I do thank to keep seeing usernames that I recognise , I become tired of every few weeks new usernames and specially those that just create usernames and focus on these boards and many are to steer. Whilst I don’t agree with many of the pro-Israel people I do understand why they’re thinking that way and also sometimes I agree with some of their views. I was actually thinking today about requesting to @mnhq whether it’d be possible to ban writing on this board for brand new ones ,

@EasterIssland appreciate that.

I agree with this actually. It's an emotive subject and I think less name-changing would probably foster more understanding and acceptance of viewpoints going forward. There would also be less aggression and pouring-petrol-on-fire by folk who jump into a thread with a hugely offensive or antagonistic comment, then fuck off as quickly as they turned up, never to be seen again (under that name anyway).

This is the latest of a proposal by the US, Egypt and Qatar that will ultimately lead to a ceasefire with a phased approach over 90 days. The deal includes the release of hostages in return for Palestinian detainees, aswell as a cease in fighting and the acceptance and a move towards a Palestinian state in return for normalisation ties between these states with Israel. That's just a quick summary from a skim read but the article explains in detail. It doesn't mention how Hamas or the Israeli government view the proposal

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-us-egypt-qatar-pushing-plan-for-hostage-release-end-of-war-normalization-palestinian-state-talks/

This was also interesting indicating a rift between senior Hamas members over the future of Gaza

Though the article does not say what would happen to Hamas in such an agreement, it does say that Hamas’s Gaza leader Yahya Sinwar and its Doha-based politburo leader Ismail Haniyeh have not spoken in a month, and are at odds over the potential demilitarization of the Strip

I read a really interesting article linked to something on Reddit with a negotiator. He said everyone's mistake is knowing what sinwar thinks or what he is capable of. He knows he is a dead man walking and if the hostages go what is left for him? Would he even care? He spent years in prison investigating and learning about the Israelis. He wasn't in prison for murdering Israelis but collaborators so that tells you something.

I think if Israel can be persuaded to lean towards a deal that the US etc are putting together... and I heard some pro speeches today from Israeli politicians (and the possibility of removing Netanyahu without an election and putting in a new government) then I can't see anyone moving on it not including Sinwar. He would be the stumbling block. Or the sacrifice.

Just my opinion.

@stomachameleon That is the most optimistic post I’ve seen in a while
No plan is not a plan . Netanyahu’s idea that the 9 million Israelis (2 million of whom are Arab and not eligible for conscription) can control the 5 million Palestinians of the occupied territories indefinitely is not tenable from a humanitarian point of view but also militarily or economically.

Hamas have released their report on their attack on 7/10 called "our narrative Al Aqsa flood"

The Palestinian group provides its account of what happened before and during the assault on communities in southern Israel.

The Palestinian group Hamas has said there were “faults” in the October 7 attack it led on southern Israel, but claimed its fighters only targeted Israeli soldiers and people carrying weapons.

In a 16-page report titled “Our Narrative” and published on Sunday, Hamas, which governs Gaza, said it wanted to “clarify” the background and dynamics of the surprise attack it calls Operation Al-Aqsa Flood.

Early on October 7, Hamas fighters stormed communities along Israel’s southern fence with Gaza. At least 1,139 people, mostly civilians, were killed in the attack, according to an Al Jazeera tally based on official Israeli statistics, and about 240 others were seized as captives.

Around 100 of the captives were released during a seven-day truce in late November in exchange for the release of hundreds of Palestinian prisoners from Israeli jails.

Israeli authorities have accused Hamas fighters of committing war crimes during the attack, including torture, rape and mutilation. Hamas has strongly rejected allegations of sexual violence and or mutilation.

The report said Hamas planned to target Israeli military sites and to capture soldiers, which could be used to pressure the Israeli authorities to release thousands of Palestinians held in Israeli prisons.

The group said that avoiding harming civilians “is a religious and moral commitment” by fighters of Hamas’s armed wing, the Qassam Brigades.

“If there was any case of targeting civilians; it happened accidentally and in the course of the confrontation with the occupation forces,” read the report.

www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/21/hamas-says-october-7-attack-was-a-necessary-step-admits-to-some-faults?traffic_source=rss

Remember how Hamas wore those fun little Go Pro style cameras? They gladly provided their own evidence that all of what you just quoted in your post is a complete fabrication.

Please stop spreading actual terrorist propaganda.

@Humdingerydoo what I posted was copied from the article I linked. So not my thoughts but what was written in an article.

I'm aware. I even mentioned you having quoted it in your post. I'm just horrified that people are going on the internet and spreading this terrorist propaganda.

@Humdingerydoo that's abit harsh to accuse the poster of spreading terrorist propaganda when it's being reported on MSM

She is sharing an article full of terrorist propaganda. That's literally what it is. People are going to read it and take it at face value even though it's blatant terrorist propaganda, and that scares me.

If that was ISIS justifying their actions, would you be treating it as legitimately as you are this?

@Humdingerydoo I was not treating it legitimately and ofcourse it's propaganda. As you said they recorded the whole atrocity which is clearly contradictory of their words.
I personally think it's aimed at the Arab governments in light of what was reported earlier as the proposals being discussed.

I'm actually staggered at the sheer gall of that "report". The stupid fucks wore go pros! And there have since then been months of forensics and witness statements, pictures and videos of the aftermath.
I'd call it gaslighting but it's not subtle enough. It's blatant, bare faced lies.

Thank you. It's not my intentions to spread propaganda. I was just posting it to let posters know it had been released.

The full truth will come out eventually.

And so it begins.

Yet people are clearly willing to believe it, including people on MN 😳 It's genuinely terrifying the amount of people who are willing to believe literally anything Hamas, a terrorist organisation responsible for kidnapping, maiming, raping, torturing and murdering innocent civilians, say. This is why I was annoyed about the article being shared.

As opposed to trusting everything the IDF who are responsible for kidnapping, maiming, raping, torturing and murdering innocent civilians, say.

And tonight's winner of most blatant post of ""whataboutery" goes to ....
@inkworks273 .

Congratulations and do you think you could try harder next time with maybe a more structured counter argument based on verifiable facts. Thank you.

There's a happy medium where you don't have to trust and/or support the IDF if you don't want to but where you also don't trust and/or support terrorists.

I didn't say I trust terrorists. I said the truth, whatever that is, will come out in the end. Israel could speed that process up by allowing a full and independent investigation into the events of October 7th.

The truth is already out. Again, Hamas filmed themselves. Remember the grandma who they murdered and then posted her murder on her own Facebook page for her loved ones to see? That was Hamas. I really don't think they thought this grandmother was a soldier or any kind of combatant, do you? And remember when they kidnapped the Bibas family (one child a baby, the other 4 years old) and then gifted them to other terrorists? That was also Hamas.

The truth is out there if you just open your eyes. They told you who they are, now it's time for you to believe them.