Israel/Hamas War - Ceasefire

[Toggenburgsaregreat]

Each Saturday we are seeing demonstrations in London where people are marching with placards and calling for a ceasefire in the Hamas/Israel war.

However, it is difficult to know how the supporters of Palestine think this can be achieved? (Interestingly, no calls for Hamas to cease hostilities and return the hostages were heard - so is this really a call for unilateral disarmament?)

And who should Israel negotiate a ceasefire with? Hamas, ISIS, ISSP, The Muslim Brotherhood - all of these groups/any of these groups?

What is it the supporters of Palestine actually want?

Not as many as you would fear given the thousands of rockets- I thought it was about 70 but according to this source probably about 20 in the last 20 odd years. Some attacks were mixed weapons. The iron dome is very effective and apparently the trajectory of rockets lends itself to interception, compared with other weapons. So this is pretty much what stoma is saying, it’s pure terrorism and some of these victims were old people who couldn’t run for cover, even a 5yo child whose home’s metal shutters gave way- so sad. It’s as much psychological warfare as physical, everyone has to have a safe room and be able to get the most vulnerable as she described.
I didn’t double check this list but I only noticed one person killed by stone throwing in the 20 years which is interesting, given that it’s perceived as such a threat by IDF.
Road deaths are about 350 and Palestinian deaths ran at about 200 last year for context .

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestinian-rocket-and-mortar-attacks-against-israel?utm_content=cmp-true

But unfortunately the military response taken by Israel has not led to the urgent freeing of that poor girl, not even among the hostages released 50 days later.

Am I not right in thinking that she is still held (because she is one of the IDF conscripts), along with other female conscripts like her - over 100 days later (under appalling conditions which don’t bear thinking about according to a released hostage who met some of these girls at one point?)
(As for the baby what ever happened? At one point when the others were freed was he thought to be dead?)

Where is there evidence of the urgent action to free the hostages, in the face of the reality that the urgent action taken to create ‘military pressure’ has not worked?

We also know from some of the freed hostages how they were kept in places narrowly missed by Israeli bombs which hit a house next to them, so it seems possible some hostages may not have escaped being bombed.

I think it is possible that the government feels that the hostages cannot be their top priority.

Thanks for addressing my question.
So on average, 1 death every year by Hamas rockets if the figure is for the last 20 years. In effect, your chance of dying from being hit by one of these rockets is very small indeed; you could even say very unlikely. You are more likely to die in a road accident if you are an Israeli citizen then.
At the moment, a child is killed in Gaza every ten minutes, 10 thousands so far. Every child's death is a tragedy. Full stop, no ifs, no buts.
But what I find it very difficult to understand is that, in order to keep the Israeli civilians safe, in part from these rockets, 24000 Palestinians had to die, so far.
Is this justifiable?

@Humdingerydoo thank you for explaining and sorry if I came across as dismissive of the trauma Israelis are facing, it wasn't my intention.
As I said I follow alot of the hostage forum pages and all I see on there is support for a hostage deal so I was quite taken aback by the comments calling them extremely selfish.

This is not towards you in anyway (just clarifying as I know over text sometimes it can be misinterpreted) I personally really struggle to understand those who justify the war in Gaza at this stage, when it's clear how many civilians including children are dying in the most cruel way every single day. I wont go in detail as i know someone will be along to tell me i am being too emotive. It's the same way I struggle to understand those who somehow try and justify the October 7th attacks on civilians including children and try and frame it as acts of resistance.

It's a horrible horrible situation for all those involved but the only way forward I can see is through a ceasefire. That's the most likely path for the release of hostages and also towards a diplomatic solution.

Thank you for that link. I feel so much sympathy for the families of hostages calling ‘free them now, but it is interesting to hear this other view from people who are also directly affected and their point of view seems understandable too.

I agree with you. I struggle a lot with the immense trauma Palestinians are being exposed to, particularly as I do in general support Israel. So it all feels very conflicting, even though supporting Israel and supporting Palestinians aren't actually mutually exclusive. You're usually made to feel like they are on MN though.

I don't support the war or war in general, I just have an understanding of why it's happening and often present that pov as people on here don't seem to see it at all. They're often completely ignorant to it, sometimes wilfully so. As a result I inevitably end up being accused of hating Palestinians and being a "genocider". It's all pretty tiresome to say the least.

Seeing people discuss on this thread that not enough Israelis have died by rockets is pretty fucking insane. People seem to forget Hamas don't only fire rockets. They've also been known to send suicide bombers, stabbers, people to drive into people.... Just thankfully, a lot of them are stopped before they can cause too much damage thanks to the IDF, the Iron Dome etc. You should take into account the amount of attempted murders, which is obviously impossible. So maybe stop pretending Israelis aren't suffering because not enough of them have died for you to take it seriously. They are still suffering. I have nephews and nieces whose nurseries have been permanently moved to a bomb shelter. Stop pretending life is all lovely and peachy for Israelis. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Stop pretending life is all lovely and peachy for Israelis.

I don’t think many people are really saying that Humdingerydoo. Well I’m not anyway.
As you say supporting Israelis and Palestinians aren't mutually exclusive.

@Humdingerydoo I don't support the war or war in general, I just have an understanding of why it's happening and often present that pov as people on here don't seem to see it at all. They're often completely ignorant to it, sometimes wilfully so.

I have been following the Israel/Palestine conflict for many years and I have never seen such intense polarising views as witnessed in this current conflict. Sometimes it can just be different opinions/views. I don't expect everyone to agree with mine even though it can feel incredibly frustrating at times.

You must have missed the posts above discussing how few deaths by rockets there have been. As though that's the only way Hamas attack Israel 🤦🏻‍♀️ Trying to make out as though Israelis are perfectly safe and have nothing to worry about. Pretending the suffering is entirely one-sided.

I think the point is, I don't have to agree with your point of view and you don't have to agree with mine to understand it or at least where it comes from. Some people aren't willing to understand anything "the other side" say.

@Auvergne63

I suspected you would do that. Minimise anything that said about living under rocket fire and terrorist attack.

How about seeing it another way?

If there was no dome can you imagine how many thousands of Israelis would have been killed? How many deaths the dome has prevented? Israel would have retaliated much sooner including to Hezbollah. I am sure I read somewhere that the dome had saved one of the most important mosques (Al Aqsa ) recently?

So Israel is being punished for putting the security of their citizens first?

I am just being honest. Being empathetic is one thing but leading the charge on here whilst doing it.... hmmmm
If you are aware people are not a hive mind then you should not be so surprised by people with differing points of view. It doesn’t make you “ghoulish”.

@Trulywonderful I can't believe you would think that I only post on the hostages thread because I get a kick out of causing emotional pain to other posters. It's not only false but a really horrible thing to say. But If that's how you and other posters feel then il be sure to stay away from that thread in future.

@stomachameleon I'm not even going to bother to reply to that, you either seem determined to see the worse in me or then just starting a argument for the sake of it

@Fussandmisery thank you

Facts are facts. Argue with them, not me.

@stomachameleonI'm not even going to bother to reply to that, you either seem determined to see the worse in me or then just starting a argument for the sake of it
Totally agree with you.

I can also present skewed facts if you think that would be helpful? Maybe have a bit of a think about how many air strikes Israel has carried out Vs how many deaths there have been in Gaza. Not much more than one death per airstrike really if you think about it, so I guess what Israel is doing is perfectly reasonable?

And please remember, don't argue with me about it. Argue with the facts. Facts are facts, after all.

Alternatively, maybe we can all just stop presenting facts in an entirely biased way and stop trying to manipulate them to tell a different story to suit our preferred narrative.

Some people? You mean me?
Did I say not enough Israeli had died by rockets? No.
Did I say the Israeli civilians are not suffering? No again.

Remember when you point the finger at someone, three point back at you.
I will let you ponder on this.

Thanks for such a great, yet misplaced, life lesson. Much appreciated.