The Nakba of 1948

[Watermelonpower]

Hello everyone
I’m creating this thread because I feel there is not enough awareness about the Nakba of 1948 and the impact this had on the Palestinian people, community and the diaspora that was created as a result. Anyone seeking to understand current events in the Middle East needs to understand The Nakba, what it meant to Palestinians and how the consequences and generational trauma impacts Palestinians to this day. For those who are unaware, 70% of Gaza’s population are Nakba refugees/their descendants.

At the outset I would like to say this thread is about understanding and awareness. Above all, it is about the Palestinian experience and perspective. I would therefore appreciate it if people would keep this in mind and be respectful in their posting, ensuring MN Talk Guidelines are adhered to. I will be also be sharing some personal stories and
suggesting some additional resources and media for those who wish to learn more.

https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/

ER2 probably should refrain from the "debate" until he/she has read up on international law.

yes, unfortunately it’s beyond obvious that this conflict will not make Israel safer. The orphaned children will one day grow up. The widowed husbands and the parents whose children were killed in front of them, in the most awful ways, will have nothing left to lose or live for. They will want revenge. Will we be asked to condemn what they do in a few years?

I agree that there will be some who want revenge but I don’t agree that we should accept revenge as inevitable or acceptable. It is nearly always the innocent who suffer and therefore revenge should DEFINITELY be condemned. It just perpetuates the cycle of violence.
It is much more important ( and difficult) to END the cycle of violence.
Yes - there must be justice for Palestinians.
No - they will not achieve justice through terror attacks like October 7th on innocent people.

I will always condemn terror attacks and saying it is revenge for the Nabka doesn’t make it OK .
But it is important to understand the reasons for the bitterness Palestinians feel and to work towards a just solution. It will not be possible to please everyone. Some people will feel there grievances were not addressed.. but for the sake of a better future for their children that is a price worth paying.

“their grievances “

My main point is that there is nothing unique about the 1948 displacement.

as Ive mentioned , there is no point in downplaying it, all these events are documented,

people were forcefully moved out< , those who resisted were killed> to make way for people coming from Europe , the only ties these people they had to this new land are religious ones .
prior to that, all worshipers of the three major religions , Christianity , Judaism , Islam coexisted in that country.
Some people moved to Jordan , some to Lebanon , Syria, these countries were still coping from the after math of the French mandate that ended a couple of years earlier ,
I don’t even need to explain just how challenging it is for smallish and not relatively rich countries to accommodate refugees .

We can even debate whether one can at all be considered a refugee when they've merely been rehoused some tens of miles away in the same country. If a group was forced to relocate from Hastings to Brighton, would they be classed as refugees?

Yes, what would you call it if a particular part of the population was moved into a city (e.g. Brighton), had borders put round it so that population couldn't leave, and then was made stateless?

So if a particular heritage was moved into Brighton and the UK then simultaneously controlled its borders and also denied it was part of the UK and therefore the UK was not responsible for it or the people in it.

I don't think we do have words for that but it feels very wrong.

To be clear - my previous post is in no way intended to imply that I support acts of revenge or retaliation so I’m sorry if it came across that way. Contextualising behaviour is not akin to supporting it. But it’s important to add context particularly in circumstances where one group is constantly being collectively dehumanized or presented as motivated only by irrational hate towards another groups religion/ethnicity or nationality.
What I meant to say was that the current military strategy in Gaza will not deliver security to Israelis because it is just sowing the seeds for more hatred, trauma and injustice. I believe this is a false narrative that the Israeli government is using. I agree the only way forward is through negotiations where there would need to be concessions made on both sides to achieve a peaceful resolution so that everyone on either side can live in dignity and security.

Absolutely 💯

Thanks so much for posting this thread, so many people didn’t know the full history of Palestine and still think this all started in a vacuum on 7 Oct.

I read on here a couple of months ago (can't find it now, or when it has a source) that 70 something % of Hamas fighters have had a parent killed by Israel.

Again, it's not an excuse, or justification. More am illustration of the cycle of violence. Of course a proportion of young men who have lost parents will seek revenge and Hamas welcomes them...

The more children that are orphaned, or who are their siblings killed, their friends etc, the more angry young men there will be in the future. Their anger and wish for resistance is valid. Turning to terror is not.

And yes, you can get rid of Hamas, but what about Hamas 2, or 3 etc. You can't bomb anger out of an opposed population. All you do is recruit for the Hamas of the future.

I agree that taking revenge by murdering innocent civilians and children is criminal and abhorrent. What should happen to the current Israeli government for these actions?

I totally agree that Israel’s current actions are totally counterproductive and that what is happening in both the West Bank (the settlements) and in Gaza is a crime.

However, we still need to address the inhumanity of the neighbouring countries to the Palestinians. Ukranian refugees who come to the U.K. and the rest of Europe are allowed to become citizens and develop new lives.

Europe does not build refugee camps for Ukrainians on the Polish border and deny them citizenship while they wait to return.

It is inhumane what the neighbouring states have put the Palestinian people through since 1948. Why is there not an outcry that people who are born, grown up and live their whole lives in a country are denied citizenship or passports?

Im not sure what you are suggesting? I hope the current Israeli government are voted out and a more moderate government installed. What do you think ?
I also want Hamas to be removed from power .
I don’t know how either of these can be achieved.
I do know that the more extreme Hamas becomes - the more the Israelis will look for an aggressive and “tough” government response.
Likewise the more extreme the government response the more extreme Hamas becomes…
And so it goes on .
That is why the only hope is to break the cycle . How do we do that? Is it even possible?

However, we still need to address the inhumanity of the neighbouring countries to the Palestinians. Ukranian refugees who come to the U.K. and the rest of Europe are allowed to become citizens and develop new lives.
you are comparing western and northern Europe GDPs with Jordan an Egypt?

Both Hamas and the Israeli government are extremist leaderships who have murdered many innocent people. There should be parity in how they are viewed and punished.

So how do you think the Israeli government should be punished and by whom?

Yes. What Putin has done to Ukraine is abhorrent. However, I can oppose his invasion, but still think that the displaced refugees should be treated with humanity and not herded into a refugee camp on the border. They should be allowed to become full citizens of the country they are in, the same as anyone else.

Or do you think that we also should have kept the Ukrainians in refugee camps or otherwise Putin ‘would win’? Our humanity is better than that.

The Palestians were displaced in 1948 as a consequence of declaring war on Israel. You can't join up with your mates to attack your neighbour and then bleat and play the victim when you get beaten.

But there was no Isreal , you can’t create a sovereign country out of other peoples land.

Well Israel clearly has a view on how to respond to terrorists. Not a view I would agree with - killing thousands of innocent people - but apparently 70% of Israeli voters support the current military response.

How do YOU think extremists who murder innocent people should be dealt with?

The Hague

.

And do you think there should be one rule for one killer of innocent people and another ru

Sorry what? Was that aimed at me?