The Nakba of 1948

[Watermelonpower]

Hello everyone
I’m creating this thread because I feel there is not enough awareness about the Nakba of 1948 and the impact this had on the Palestinian people, community and the diaspora that was created as a result. Anyone seeking to understand current events in the Middle East needs to understand The Nakba, what it meant to Palestinians and how the consequences and generational trauma impacts Palestinians to this day. For those who are unaware, 70% of Gaza’s population are Nakba refugees/their descendants.

At the outset I would like to say this thread is about understanding and awareness. Above all, it is about the Palestinian experience and perspective. I would therefore appreciate it if people would keep this in mind and be respectful in their posting, ensuring MN Talk Guidelines are adhered to. I will be also be sharing some personal stories and
suggesting some additional resources and media for those who wish to learn more.

https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/

.1948 it was by and large an empty country what sort of materials do you read 😵‍💫?

in the late 1800 the Lumiere brothers made a film about Palestine , they’ve been to Yaffa, Jerusalem , Nablus.

, yaffa was a big bustling port. Do you know of the Yaffa citrus industry?

1. Do you need to have a state in order to have an identity? The Travellers (both Irish/English) have never had a state, they are widely recognized as having a very particular identity and way of life,to the extent that they are protected groups within UK law.

2.They are internally displaced people, as recognized by international law. Under the 1951 Convention they are only Refugees once they have had to leave their home. Due to the unique situation it isn't actually possible to do that.

3.You are really clutching at straws here. Under the Asylum act (which grants refugee status) it doesn't really matter semantically. The reality was that the Palestinian people were forced out. It doesn't really make a difference if a few of them had money to go on a plane somewhere - they either stayed and were under imminent threat of death or they left. They are all considered refugees.

1. WTAF? You cannot defy international law and attempt to make it the problem/fault of neighbouring states.

Just come out and say it, you don't think Palestinians have any right to live in their own land.

@GaterGame

No I’m not.

You haven’t answered either. Tricky isn’t it?

The Israeli government responded to the Hamas terrorists by killing thousands of their innocent countrymen, women and children.

Israel and the US seem to feel that the Israeli government should be punished for their terrorism by maybe being voted out at some point.

South Africa is taking them to the International criminal court.

I’d probably go with option 3.

What about you?

If the Jews are expected to stop "weaponising" the Holocaust, perhaps the Palestinians should stop "weaponising" the Nakba? Something to consider.

Palestine being a perpetual refugee state suits certain global/Middle Eastern agendas. Something else to consider.

I never answered because you didn't. I'm surprised you actually did this time, must be a first for you.

I lean towards the idea of the democratically elected government being democratically voted out.

@GaterGame
Of course, that’s the bare minimum. Also hopefully the ICC and prison. Which would be better than they deserve.

Apologies OP for the derail.

The generational trauma of both events is so great that I think it's difficult for anyone without a family connection to them to understand, and it would take a truly great effort of will for both sides to lay that historic suffering aside. I do agree though that both sides seem to be incapable of looking forward. And you can't talk about the Nakba without the Holocaust - the first would not have happened without the second.

ER2 you seem to be quite hung up on neighbouring states doing their duty. Have the Palestinian people, with their little modest, occupied strip of land, not been neighbours of the century by carrying Europe’s shitty burden for decades? Europe created this tragedy by carrying out the genocide. The Palestinian people suffer for it because Europeans didn’t want to clean up their own shit and make Europe a safe home for Jews. Why should the Palestinian people suffer for Europe’s unresolved mess? I say this as the daughter of a German Jew who lived the Nazi experience before anyone asks.

there were some bustling towns, albeit with populations far below current numbers, but the country as a whole was mostly empty.
population has nothing to do with it, certainly doesn’t warrant illegal settlements.

and no , it’s not just some bustling towns , there were 530 Palestinian villages that were depopulated between 1947-1948. that’s a lot for such a small place ,
so do you think all countries with huge vast empty lands be declared sovereign countries ?

Palestinians are not allowed to return to Palestine, they have no right to return. Jews who left Europe are free return if they wish. Please don't make it out that these people are crying over a few bricks and mortar. It was the destruction of villages, homes, farms, murder, rape. The subsequent attempted erasure of them as a people by people like you is probably more painful to them though.

Because the reality is too painful for them to acknowledge. Much easier to pass the buck onto someone else. It's utterly disgusting at the lengths that some people go to in order to make out that these Palestinian people weren't even people. No culture, no identity... they should have just crawled under a rock in a neighbouring country and done Israel a favour.

Also Jews have Israel to go to if they choose not to return to eg Poland.
Where do Gazans go if they are forced out of Gaza and not allowed to return?

@ER2 Your analogy does not work. Ireland could reunite tomorrow, without anyone being displaced.

However, if there were a pogrom and all NI Catholics expelled to the Republic, then yes they would be refugees without any borders changing. In that event, I expect they would be accepted and not herded into a refugee camp as otherwise the others would win.

So while I would agree that the treatment of Jordan, Syria etc of the Palestinians was inhumane, it is absolute nonsense to deny that ethnic cleansing happened with the Nakba. There were towns and villages where people had lived for centuries were expelled by force. The land was not empty. If it is, then the displaced would be few in number.

You need a history lesson.

Thank you for your post. It echoes what I heard the head of the Jews for justice for Palestinians organization say.
I am not Jewish but I am the daughter of parents who lived under German occupation, the great niece of a man who was sent to a forced labour camp in Germany and the granddaughter of a man who fought against Mussolini.

But they can go to the West Bank and claim someone else’s house ?

just to give you an idea of some of the empty land you mentioned ER2 ;
-District of Acre - 26 villages, population 14,000.
-District of Ramla - 58 villages, population 17,000.
-District of Baysan - 29 villages, population 6000,
-District of Jaffa 23 villages , population 76000
-District of Haifa before 1922, population 20000,

another thing to consider, people mainly relied on Farming as their main source of income , the area is well known for its olive groves , citrus , pomegranates , vast areas got destroyed to make way for new settlements .

Did the Arab League not declare war on the newly formed state of Isreal then?

You are being deliberately obtuse in an attempt to minimise the Nakba and atrocities towards Palestinians.

Jews can return to Poland and set up a home there. Of course, they can't kick out the occupants of their great grandparents' house. Nobody said they could.
Palestinians are not allowed to set foot in Gaza or the West Bank if they leave.
UN, since 1948, have consistently called upon Israel to facilitate the return of Palestinian refugees and provide reparations. Despite these repeated appeals, Palestinian refugees have been systematically denied of their right to return and forced to live in exile under precarious and vulnerable conditions outside the borders of Palestine.