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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

I feel sick (serious trigger warning)

231 replies

Solaris89 · 29/12/2023 14:39

All things considered, this is the worst thing I’ve ever read (and I’ve studied a lot of history).

Seriously, if you are a survivor of SA it’s probably best you do not read this article.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-harrowing-detail-nyt-shows-weaponization-of-rape-sexual-violence-during-oct-7/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Birthdaygal · 30/12/2023 21:29

backtowinter · 30/12/2023 14:00

What do you mean?

Are you saying those discussing acts of terrorism, brutal, deliberate, up close and personal acts of terrorism are to blame for the derailers and whatabouters?

Surely I've misunderstood

Show quote history

Yes you have

Charlingspont · 30/12/2023 21:45

I don't think that the people going on protest matches for Palestinians quite understand that Hamas would do exactly what they did to those women (and men) at the festival to anyone of the people so gamely marching on their behalf in London if they felt like it and could get away with it, egged on by all their repugnant mates with their ill-education and poorly developed minds.

copiley695 · 30/12/2023 22:13

Birthdaygal · 30/12/2023 21:29

Yes you have

Show quote history

So how exactly is starting a thread about rapes and sexual assaults goady?

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 22:16

stomachameleon · 30/12/2023 20:06

@Trulywonderful if you are reporting them chances are the original posts will be In your outbox. They are in mine.

Oh I didn't know that.

I don't look at private messages much and had not clocked that.

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 22:29

PurpleChrayne · 30/12/2023 20:09

The feelings this article gives me as a Jewish woman and mother of a Jewish daughter are visceral and impossible to explain with words.

It is an echo of the Holocaust.

A very loud echo.

I have wept and raged for these women every day since October 7.

I have no words adequate for my fury and sadness.

People don't seem to comprehend that some of us are dealing with generational trauma

Some of us were heard about the Holocaust from parents or grandparents that experienced it first hand

Some of us now have to be grateful that are parents or grandparents are dead and have not had to hear about the pogrom or see the rise in antisemitism lately

Some of us now as Jewish women are very aware that these men would not think twice but to do the same thing to ourselves and our daughters

On top of all that we are hurting like everyone else for the victims of the pogrom and the hostages that have been and are been abused.

I hear you Purple and only wish more people would hear us all and understand the emotions feeling at this time. That they would stop any denial or whataboutism and just people let people express how they feel

Member869894 · 30/12/2023 22:39

Such terrible inhumanity on both sides

stomachameleon · 30/12/2023 23:06

I wonder if the NYT piece will be published/ shared in papers in the UK. It's important although content is unbearable that people are able to see and hear testimony. You shouldn't need to go looking for This!

etmoiandme · 30/12/2023 23:31

@stomachameleon Agreed. I'd like to see the Graun share it but they won't. If any of the broadsheets do, it'll be the Times or Telegraph.

stomachameleon · 30/12/2023 23:46

@etmoiandme Wink must be something we can do about that!

Murica · 31/12/2023 01:11

Trulywonderful · 30/12/2023 22:29

People don't seem to comprehend that some of us are dealing with generational trauma

Some of us were heard about the Holocaust from parents or grandparents that experienced it first hand

Some of us now have to be grateful that are parents or grandparents are dead and have not had to hear about the pogrom or see the rise in antisemitism lately

Some of us now as Jewish women are very aware that these men would not think twice but to do the same thing to ourselves and our daughters

On top of all that we are hurting like everyone else for the victims of the pogrom and the hostages that have been and are been abused.

I hear you Purple and only wish more people would hear us all and understand the emotions feeling at this time. That they would stop any denial or whataboutism and just people let people express how they feel

Show quote history

I'm not Jewish but solidarity to all the Jewish women here. There are women out there who hear you. Am Yisrael Chai. (I can say that, right?)

Birthdaygal · 31/12/2023 01:34

It’s not.

It’s no wonder these threads keep descending into insanity when no one bothers to read each others posts.

Birthdaygal · 31/12/2023 01:35

copiley695 · 30/12/2023 22:13

So how exactly is starting a thread about rapes and sexual assaults goady?

Show quote history

Above was to you @copiley695

VisitationRights · 31/12/2023 01:58

One of the lone female Arab voices I have heard standing up for Israeli women, an Egyptian writer, Dalia Ziada. She writes of her support for Israeli women very clearly and strongly.

https://twitter.com/daliaziada/status/1741249285809733854

It has made me very emotional to read this.

I have been astounded since that horrible Saturday at the world’s reaction to the horrors of that day. From the celebrations by Gaza civilians, to protestor gathering at Israeli embassies world wide to protest against Israel while the slaughter was still ongoing, to protest marches against Israel before they even responded militarily. I have been shocked at the silence, the victim blaming, the darvo, and on and on.

So just reading an Arab woman writing that she stands with Israeli women and girls has made me cry. On the surface just a simple gesture, it doesn’t change what happened or the fact that there are still hostages but it feels profound. It shows me how much stress I am feeling at women not speaking up for other women. Then, I think that if I am feeling such stress then how must Jewish women be feeling?

I am so sorry that the world, especially other women, have let you down. I stand with Israeli women. I stand against Hamas. I stand with Israel. Israel lives.

I feel sick (serious trigger warning)
I feel sick (serious trigger warning)
I feel sick (serious trigger warning)
stomachameleon · 31/12/2023 11:48

@VisitationRights thanks for signposting that. It's so important we hear all voices.

copiley695 · 31/12/2023 18:51

Birthdaygal · 31/12/2023 01:34

It’s not.

It’s no wonder these threads keep descending into insanity when no one bothers to read each others posts.

So... why did you say it is? I can't see anything goady, unless you count your own posts.

GothConversionTherapy · 31/12/2023 19:05

I don't believe for a second these "men" have any kind of ideology, they just want impunity to do this kind of thing. Unfortunately they find it, and then the world doesn't care.

Birthdaygal · 31/12/2023 19:14

copiley695 · 31/12/2023 18:51

So... why did you say it is? I can't see anything goady, unless you count your own posts.

Show quote history

I didn’t say it is.

I have read back and do believe it is clear.

Sorry but I don’t see how I can help you

stomachameleon · 31/12/2023 20:07

@Birthdaygal
That's what they are on about. Derailing.

I feel sick (serious trigger warning)
Room2move · 31/12/2023 20:12

Charlingspont · 30/12/2023 21:45

I don't think that the people going on protest matches for Palestinians quite understand that Hamas would do exactly what they did to those women (and men) at the festival to anyone of the people so gamely marching on their behalf in London if they felt like it and could get away with it, egged on by all their repugnant mates with their ill-education and poorly developed minds.

Don't generalise everyone at the marches. Palestine is not Hamas. They are not marching in support of Hamas, as I'm sure you know.
Edit: Not meant to be goady, reading back, as most are objecting to civilians being harmed, not supporting Hamas.

stomachameleon · 31/12/2023 20:27

@Room2move 'most are' it's the others that people have an issue with.

ScrollingLeaves · 31/12/2023 21:06

That raping and killing on Oct 7 was barbaric and appalling, savage and disgusting beyond anything imaginable.

The fact that some Hamas spokespeople have vehemently denied it shows that they know full well what happened is a crime by their standards too.

If only the few survivors could gradually heal. I read at one point that tragically some have killed themselves.

As for Owen Jones there are no words adequate for showing how despicable he is.

Not that women are normally believed at the best of times, but given that raping as part of attacking is so common as well as all the gathered evidence and witness testimony related to this particular massacre on this particular day, and how clear it was that Hamas and loose Palestinian men were running completely amok, why wouldn’t it be true?

There was the clear evidence from the start with the film everyone saw of the poor girl pulled out a truck by her hair, her trousers covered in blood at her bottom, her ankles badly cut by wires/ties and then shoved into another vehicle. But no none in the news seemed to say much about it.

There was a little information in the news about these rapes 6 November <a class="break-all" href="https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/yokra13660087#autoplay?utm_source=www.ynet.co.il&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=general_share" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/yokra13660087#autoplay?utm_source=www.ynet.co.il&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=general_share

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/10/israel-womens-groups-warn-of-failure-to-keep-evidence-of-sexual-violence-in-hamas-attacks

There was also the very informative thread in the Feminism: Sex and Gender board.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4945262-feminism-rape-and-israel-content-warning

Then at last the BBC.

This late New York Times article will mean more people in the USA will realise more fully the horror of what happened though. It is also very specific and detailed.

stomachameleon · 31/12/2023 21:17

Thanks for the précis.

Birthdaygal · 01/01/2024 01:10

stomachameleon · 31/12/2023 20:07

@Birthdaygal
That's what they are on about. Derailing.

Yes I complained about people goading and derailing and am faced with goading and derailing. As I said it is bizarre.

I am not commenting any further as hope the discussion can return to the women and girls.

setsu · 01/01/2024 01:24

Birthdaygal · 01/01/2024 01:10

Yes I complained about people goading and derailing and am faced with goading and derailing. As I said it is bizarre.

I am not commenting any further as hope the discussion can return to the women and girls.

Show quote history

Yes, that's what was being talked about before you came along.

Trulywonderful · 01/01/2024 01:30

Not sure the goading conversation is going anywhere folks, well apart from around in a circle

Perhaps everyone just forgets about it for 2024 and gets on with the thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread