WHY!!!

[Mrsmulhern]

Literally, just WHY!! Like I just don’t get war/conflict and when I’ve had conversations with people their answer is well, it’s because of something that happened years ago, or religion.

I mean why as human beings can we not just put an end to everything!! And if your answer is well we don’t want ‘terrorists’.. Literally 99 percent of humans do not want that either.
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I genuinely feel like I’m going insane, why is nobody questioning any war, anywhere?! WHAT does anyone have to be afraid of? People, like you and me are dying everywhere, all over the world and it’s ok with everyone.

I am genuinely curious as to reasons but I can’t see any. We’re on this planet for such a short time and people just blindly follow their ‘leader’.

Why can’t we just say no and stop it?!

Dancing for peace seriously? They were at a party with not much thought about what their Palestinian neighbours living in an apartheid state endure. What happened was beyond awful, but it was a party.

Jerusalem by Simon Sebag Montefiore gives a balanced view of the history of Jerusalem.

I meant that they were harmless and had the very best of intentions, like OP. Look where that gets you.

Hopefully you have watched this @Mrsmulhern . Many ask, then don't actually read or watch what others show and share.

The video in French above of the people at the festival hiding scared, whilst terrorists, and ordinary Palestinian men ran around killing people, ends with pictures showing which of those hiding in terror, in the short clip were either assinated or taken hostage.

Hamas want to wipe out all Jewish people and Israel doesn't want that to happen and in its grief the government declared war on Hamas. Many thousands of innocent people have been killed. It's sickening to watch. People of both Gaza and Israel dying.

I get your hoping for simplicity. If only as simple as you say, however, terrorists don't think like you do. They don't want to sit down, divide land and stick to their area, they have sworn to wipe out Israel and its people. Israel and the US and also Germany are showing support for Israel and won't allow it.

We all wish it was simplistic and if the entire world had that innocent childlike thinking it could be achieved. However, terrorists, fascists, dictatorships, evil individuals, etc sadly, don't think in childlike ways, they are evil and not fighting back against them, means being slaughtered.

Somewhere in the middle, negotiations will hopefully stop this awful war as quickly as possible. Sadly, there are other conflicts and terrorism going on in many countries, have a look, fortunately this one isn't being ignored as many are, for many reasons other than just killing people is bad. Maybe, some will wake up to all the killing in other countries and speak up about those too, otherwise, why not?

Well you've had a few posters here justifying the genocide in Gaza so there you go. Some people do think it's OK and find any way to justify this evil.

Depressing.

@Mushroomsouptonight
I think you mean this link 😊

It's heavily censored, out of respect for the deceased, and I suspect most people just can't be bothered watching it.

So interesting that this actual genocide is so underplayed, I wonder why? People literally hunted down for hours, attacked in their safe rooms, attacked in shelters with grenades and machine guns. On 7 October, if you were at Nova Festival, you had a roughly 90% chance of survival. If you lived in one of the kibbutzim attacked, you had a ~20% chance of survival. All this annihilation happened within a few hours.

Three months into the war, if you live in Gaza, you have a 99% chance of survival. And yet it's Israel being accused of deliberate genocide.

To go back to your op, OP, I am not in favour of war, but I think it's a bit smug not to realise what a luxury it is not to have to fight one.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise I used wrong link.

I totally agree with you. Sadly, there is more to this than general horror at war.

99% chance of survival in Gaza
80% chance of survival at festival
20% chance of survival in Kibbutz

Never seem it like this before.

All horrific. Puts the use of the word genocide into context (I don't want any killings by the way)

Those percentages really put things into perspective.

Those stats are misleading. Certain neighbourhoods in Gaza have had enormous loss of life. Lumping all of Gaza into one stat is disingenuous.

Regarding Israel/Palestine, I recently read Jeremy Bowen's excellent 'The Making of the Modern Middle East', which is partly about his life as BBC Middle East correspondent, and also the general history of the region. One point that keeps coming back is that Israel's leaders have really internalised this idea that the Palestinians just have to accept they are defeated. That they must be crushed again and again until the accept that this is it, this is all they're getting. But of course that will never happen, and of course people will use that defiance to repeat attacks on Israel (funded by countries that don't want Israel to exist) and so the cycle continues, and it's just horror all round, especially, in my opinion, for the Palestinians who will never have the firepower that Israel has.

I'm Jewish and I can't see how they end this. I want there to be a country where Palestinians and Jews can live together, but I don't see how it can happen with the leadership on both sides being as they are and with the high emotions attached to sites in Jerusalem etc for Muslims and Jewish people.

I mean, I'm not a statistician. But if you multiply these survival percentages by the actual time involved (hours versus months), the evidence of genocidal intentions is pretty clear.

Israel has carefully censored distressing images, unlike Hamas who seem to promote them on social media. I guess images of dead babies, and body counts, are much easier to access and share than something that requires an attention span.

Yes it certainly is
Aswell as the disgusting minimising of what is happening in Gaza

Yes, that's true. But in terms of measuring the ferocity of attacks, and genocidal intention, I think it's worth considering this to get some idea of the threat Israel is actually facing. On MN, there is a prevailing impression that something vaguely bad happened on 7 October and everything since then has been a massive overreaction, motivated purely by... oh I don't know, take your pick: contempt for "brown people" (as though Israelis aren't "brown"!), greed for profits from the sale of arms, general warmongering malicious behaviour from those privileged nasty Jews, etc.

A message from Reverend Munther Isaac from Palestine this christmas
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1QdQe2IYpE/?igsh=dnV3MW0weXYzbXhs

If you are not appalled by what is happening in Gaza, there is something wrong with your humanity. We the Palestinian people will recover. But for those who are complicit, I feel sorry for you. Will you ever recover from this?
We will not accept your apology after the Genocide
I want you to look at the mirror and ask, where was I when Gaza was going through a genocide?

I would join them, as I am doing. Why do you ask?

You can’t think that Jews are not among the protestors all around the world marching against the war in Gaza or Ukraine or elsewhere?

@Pizdietz I suppose you have conveniently forgotten all the genocidal intent expressed by Netanyahu and others in government?

Your posts minimising what is happening in Gaza actually make me feel sick with how disengaged from the pain of the Palestinians some can be. So devoid of basic humanity. And at this point in the war there's not much that is posted which I find shocking or repelling so that's saying something

You are just showing how bad war is as the attack on Nova was part of a war.

That’s why it was a war crime

The horrors of war are not reasons for more war or a defence of continuing a war.

I could just as easily post pictures of the pregnant women shot and then run over by bulldozers in Gaza while waving white flags and trying to get to a hospital. Or the decomposing bodies of the babies that IDF let die after forcing everyone to leave a hospital at gunpoint and then occupying it as a military base. Those too are horrors of war that are also war crimes.

All your posts show is how we should all be afraid of war, which means the OP’s cry of “Why” is all the more poignant and important. It’s what the majority of people feel when they look at war. It’s why war is one of the horsemen of the apocalypse.

Sorry, but that was a massacre, it was not a genocide because there was no intent to kill a people in whole or part, nor was there any distinguishing between different peoples killed. The terrorists massacred festival goers regardless of race, religion or nationality. In addition, Israeli news reported that their own intelligence has concluded that Hamas did not know about the festival before coming upon it during the attack, so there can have been no intent per the definition either as intent covers a sort of pre-planned deliberate state of mind.

That’s why no one has called it a genocide, because it doesn’t even remotely fit the definition.

You % survival calculations are absolute nonsense, you should be measuring % survival by the population of Israel not festival attendees or kibbutz residents.

You are definitely not a statistician. Your survival % are rubbish. You can’t measure genocide based on the number killed or survived in a single attack in a small location. You have also have no idea what the definition of genocide of genocidal intent is.

Yes I watched this sermon as well.

The proper way to count the civilian deaths in Israel caused by Hamas is 1,147 out of a population of 9.2 million.

The reasons there are wars are many. In WWII Germany started taking over lots of neighbouring countries, then France and then was coming for the UK. We defended ourselves. Hamas chose to murder 1200 Israelis including slitting the throats of babies. Israel had to defend itself. Pakistan in 2023 is expelling 1.7 Afghanis partly because of the activities of fundamentalist Islamic terrorists of the Parkistan Taliban and the fact Afghanistan appears to support them.

Most countries do not rush to war but it is the reason we in the West have nuclear weapons and a strong army - that we will use that to defend our interests. Most people in the UK are not pacifists and support the right of nations to defend themselves.

@Mrsmulhern

Putin for example, why can’t the richest countries just arrest him? They have the means to. Infact they actually have enough weapons to just wipe the guy out but they won’t. And we all just accept that. People are dying!

This is incredibly naive, so childishly naive I wonder if you might even be a troll.

We'd have to invade Russia to stand a chance of arresting Putin... And Putin's Russia has 1,000s of intercontinental ballistic nuclear missiles...

So yes, we could "wipe out Putin", but only as the cost of wiping of most of humanity in the process! We'd crest something literally a million times worse than what's currently happening in Ukraine.